Episode 38
#38 - [COACHING] How to Deal with Uncertainty as an Entrepreneur with Dan Bennett
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This is a public coaching session where I help Dan Bennett, an entrepreneur who's built a six-figure company, navigate the constant uncertainty and overwhelm of growing his business.
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ABOUT DAN BENNETT:
Dan is the founder of Hot Sauce Video, a company dedicated to helping remarkable people look and sound great on camera.
Connect with Dan: http://danhaslinks.com/
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Transcript
Corey
Here's the thing. How do you deal with the constant uncertainty and overwhelm of building a business? One of the main things I do as a coach is helping people navigate the inner game of entrepreneurship. The issue up until now is the way I typically help people is through private, one on one coaching, which means that though I get to help that person, nobody else really gets to hear or see what real coaching with real people looks like.
::Corey
So for today's episode, I'm starting a new series where I'm going to be doing public coaching to help real people with real problems develop real solutions to move forward with their business. So in today's episode, I help Dan Bennett. He's been on the podcast before. Dan has built his company to multiple six figures, but lately he's really been struggling with the constant uncertainty and overwhelm of growing his business.
::Corey
And the cool thing you're going to get to see is at the beginning, Dan is really struggling with this uncertainty and constantly having to learn more and do more, constantly putting out fires, constantly not fully knowing what he's doing and seeing all that is a problem because it often feels like a problem. But by the end of the session, Dan walks away with the confidence and conviction he was looking for in order to move forward with his business.
::Corey
So if you're struggling with uncertainty in your own business, today's episode should give you a lot of insight. And if you want to work together, either publicly or privately, I will put links to applications to both of those in the description below. Let's get started. When you signed up to do this call, you said, we're growing so fast that I can't learn the new facets of my business quick enough to learn even newer facets turning up daily.
::Corey
It's pretty overwhelming. Give me an example.
::Dan
So just a few days ago, we were coming up on the 30 day review for a new hire. It was not working out. As I get closer to the time, it became very clear we were going to have to let this person go before we even got to the review. In retrospect, this is so clear.
::Dan
But while it was happening, I was just part of dealing with what was going on. My ops manager and I were going through the process. You know, the technical process of letting someone go and restricting access to things and, you know, blah, blah, blah, all the organizational stuff. But I was going through the personal stuff at the exact same time.
::Dan
And after like the third or fourth time doing this, she addressed it, and when she addressed it, I realized I'd been doing it. And it was like these deep, painful sighs, chest in the middle of everything, kind of like that. And I realized what I was doing after every one of those was like, we just found this person.
::Dan
We did 198 or 189, whatever it was. Applications and 40 that actually came through and blah, blah, blah. And I spoke that list to you before. So I know you're aware and found what seemed to be this unicorn on paper and in interviews and everything just lined up. And then after like two weeks, it's like, wow, things are always bumpy when you're first getting trained and stuff.
::Dan
And then after four weeks, I'm like, this is not working. And the the losing of the help and even the upcoming work of finding new help is okay. But I was feeling the loss of all that work and it was like, I don't I've not had these problems before. So my reaction to them is very raw because I don't have a calculated response system or a mechanism in place to to utilize.
::Dan
And she could she could tell she's like, it'll be all right. We've been through this before. You know the things I like. Thanks. Because I'm struggling over here. So like that is something that is really acute. But the feeling overall is like in the cohort. It got brought up a couple times, like video games. I'll use that analogy because I'm not a huge gamer, but I when I do game, I generally play a a game through to its conclusion somewhere along the way in my life and in games like that weren't that fun anymore, and it could be just a shift in my life.
::Dan
Could be, who knows? But like somewhere a long way, I'm like, oh, I, I come up against something, I try five, six, seven times and I'm like, I'm bored. I mean, they're going to have to go watch a walk through or like, quit playing this game because this is not fun anymore. And I was like, man, it used to be it didn't matter what was going on in the game.
::Dan
So when you're just trying and doing and playing and running and seeing and all the things, and I don't want that to happen in my business. I don't want that like adventure of growth and all those things turn into like, I don't want a new level. But I also look at the level of man and I'm like, well, the things I want to accomplish before I'm done are on this level and are so I hope that kind of paints a little bit of a picture of this feeling of if I take this attention and energy away from what's currently happening in my business, to learn new things and to try to get good enough, to
::Dan
feel okay, to make decisions, a it's frustrating and be, setting myself up for some kind of failure in the sense of pulling attention away from where it should be to try and learn new things. Or how much time should I be spending on learning new things and I think a big one for me is I've wondered the whole time, like, how do you identify what experiences and expertise and tools you already have that can be applicable to something new that you've never done before?
::Dan
In a strategic way, because I feel like I'm just grabbing at everything I know and hoping some of it works like I've been in similar situations, I guess this problem. So let me grab the tools I have. So it's more of kind of a response than it is a preparation or a strategy.
::Corey
So you reference a cohort to the alchemy of your cohort, where we talk about navigating or renegotiating your relationship with fear and self-doubt and things. How does this current emotional state you're in relate to these fears?
::Dan
It's it's again, it's almost like a frustrating acceptance. So before we even started the cohort, actually, I think it was in my intro video in the, community, I assure you have always looked the fear is like this guy, you got to just invite and play a hand, a poker, see how things shake out. It's not something to be killed or put in a cage or overcame or whatever.
::Dan
And then sure, shit, that's what we end up learning. And I'm like, oh, that is how I've always looked at fear. But like, metaphorically, not as my actual relationship to it. It's always been kind of a reminder to me of like, don't run away from this, face it. But you know, not knowing exactly always how to face it.
::Dan
So getting the tools through the cohort of facing it, I appreciated that. And I've been utilizing those things, very specifically into fear not the enemy fears. Actually a guide. Come hang out, come follow me. Those sorts of things. And it's another level. And I've got many of these stories throughout my especially entrepreneurial career. It's another level of like, it's hard to do grow a business.
::Dan
It hurts to grow a business, and we do it on purpose. And so it's like this, this next level of like, well, I guess fear is not actually stopping me. It's a guide. And we got to keep going. And it's not that I'm like looking for a way out, but man, every reminder I get that there is no way out is, a little bit of a painful one.
::Dan
So, I thought a lot about the cohort before we spoke today because it lingers.
::Corey
So I have as, as you know, and everybody who's taken, you know, the alchemy fear cohort or people who have joined the Great Alchemy Lab, like all my community, you know that I'm a huge fan of the stoic concept of memento mori, which means remember death. Remember you will die.
::Corey
And I was a fan of that for like, ever since I first read it. I loved that concept of like, okay, you're going to die, so you need to use it as a filter to help you determine what matters and what doesn't matter. Because so much, so many, the things you think matter fucking don't relative to your mortality, right?
::Corey
Like, well, what if people judge me fucking you're going to die one day, right? Or okay, well, how do I how do I prioritize what actually matters so that I can spend my finite time, my life units on the things that actually matter rather than chasing shit that doesn't right. That's. And intellectually, that was a guide for me for, for many, many years.
::Corey
But I didn't fully connect with it until I almost died. Right. And it was this weird disconnect of I thought I understood this concept, I thought I had appropriately integrated it into my life, but then when I actually faced real death and I like I was hospitalized and it was a thing of like, I may not make it to tomorrow because I have this super bad infection.
::Corey
Basically, I was bordering on sepsis. Not that they told me that, but they were just like, yeah, you have this infection. If it gets into your bloodstream, your bones, you can fucking die. And also you're not responding to antibiotics. So we're just going to remove the antibiotics and you can't have surgery until like way later tomorrow because it's Covid and the beds are full and every everybody's backed up.
::Corey
So hope you make it buddy. And like and I've written about it I've talked about before but that was when I was like, oh fuck. I didn't actually understand this to the degree I thought I did for you. It's like, oh, I understand fear is a god. I understand I need to lean into this. I understand entrepreneurship is painful.
::Corey
There's a lot of uncertainty. And, you know, entrepreneurship is personal development in disguise because the stakes are so high. It can't be an intellectual exercise. It is. It is very real shit. And you can understand all that. But then there's a moment where you're like, I am in the shit right now. This is what I have been preparing for.
::Corey
This is what it actually means to deeply, existentially feel and deal with this fear, this self-doubt, this uncertainty, this fuck. Everything feels so hard, and I feel like I'm trying to, like, drink from a firehose as I'm like in the moment, you know, and mixing all the metaphors, right? Like I'm drinking from the firehose. I'm building the plane of the air.
::Corey
Like I'm doing this. I'm doing that. It's just like, fuck me. There's no real answer that is clear cut. Everything is up to me. And it's like, where is the line between learning enough? And then now I take action versus I don't know enough yet. I need to pause to learn more versus, okay, well, I can't pause. How do I learn and do at the same time?
::Corey
And it's like, yeah, you think you know this. You think you intellectually get it, but it's that emotional component of actually feeling that and being in the shit in the moment. That's that's when everything shifts.
::Dan
Yeah, yeah, it's it's draining. And the more I feel anyway, the more self-aware and the closer to self-actualization you are, the more acute everything is. And I, I have this this, you know, relationship with this thought, and have had for, for a long, long time. I used to say in the early days of, like, you know, grind and work hard and all that, entrepreneurship is this, like, I can't not it's it's internal.
::Dan
It's not a choice. I don't wake up every day and force this existence for myself, because if I had a choice in it, I would just have a job and I'd be somewhere along the way. Now, where, you know, it'd be relatively stable and I'd be in some position that I can, you know, probably coasted until I retire and all that kind of stuff.
::Dan
So, like the fact that. It's hard and I'm driven to do it by something outside of my own choices every day. To do it is it kind of compounds that effect a bit, you know, that you're talking about, something that just popped in my head that you might, solved for me after all these years. I've got this feeling of, you know, we need to, like, have a song on the tip of your tongue.
::Dan
You're trying to find it. And nowadays with Google and stuff, you're like, I'm not giving up on this. And you're humming into your phone, like, do you know this tune? I have for a long time been trying to figure out why this certain thing bugs me so much in the very, very short version of it is, if I'm watching a film, maybe TV and stuff like that, but definitely a film where you're sitting down for the one long story and then you're done.
::Dan
And it has anything to do with, like predetermined things or fate or it was always going to be this way, or my favorite gods of all kinds, but they still know what's going to happen. I get irritated when problems happen in the film, and I'm like, why are you making these choices if you know everything's already predetermined, you know?
::Dan
And like, I'll find myself like picking at, you know, the life of these fictional characters, kind of like I do myself sometimes. I've. I was born to do this. I don't have a choice. I'm not saying I believe in fate, but, like, the direction I'm going, I'm going even if I try to not. So like, there's a little bit of an irritant there that I just now it's coming to me that I feel a lot in films and stuff where there's fate or predetermination or like something like that.
::Dan
I feel similar in life. And what you notice about a lot of those characters, as they don't rest like it's by design and film. A lot of times that you want to keep the viewer entertained, but like, you don't find a lot of rest. It's what's next. It it should be shift, pivot, move. And it's like, when do you even, you know, even when they build a little fire by a tree and lay down, they're still on guard and they pop up five times a night because I think they heard something in the sticks in woods.
::Dan
And it's like, man, you know, not that I want to be. No man sits around, does nothing because that would drive me crazy, too. You do get a feeling sometimes of like, can we can we get a stretch of smooth pavement just that, like long enough that it's recognizable like, oh man, things have been like, whatever, fill in the blank is great for you for three months straight.
::Dan
This is crazy.
::Corey
So I, I like this this thread. So yes, obviously with with fiction and storytelling there's a generally depending on on genre, there's a constant escalation. But another way that can help with, you know, retention and, you know, engagement also, but in a real life situation, that constant escalation, we can also look at as growth, right? Growth is painful.
::Corey
Growth is incredibly uncomfortable in any facet. Right. Like if you grow spiritually, right, you have the dark night of the soul. Should you have to, you know, maybe you go on a pilgrimage or whatever. You sit with your thoughts and you're just like, fuck me. Like there's all this, you know, unresolved shit that I never really sat with.
::Corey
Or there are all these thoughts or insecurities or weird beliefs I have, or weird internal scripts I have that I never really sat with. So I've always kind of run from them or distracted myself from them and, you know, set whole, you know, sort of like no matter where you go, there you are. It's like you can't outrun yourself, right?
::Corey
There's that. But even something as concrete as going to the gym and lifting weights and like, growing your muscles, it's also painful. It's also uncomfortable. Like growth. I don't think can be comfortable. True growth, that growth, that escalation, that leveling up, that evolution is painful. And if you if you look in your life, the people who don't grow avoid discomfort, the people who do grow, the people whose stories inspire you are the ones who they didn't necessarily chase pain, but they chased growth and were willing to pay the price of pain.
::Corey
And I think that's a real distinguisher for people who truly grow, who truly evolve is they don't shy away from that. They realize this is the price I pay, right? It's like, what one of the guys I rip all the fucking time and he's half my age. Yang literally. Today, right before we got on this call, Jay posted something on LinkedIn about, this is what you signed up for.
::Corey
And like, it was this big post about, you know, basically, don't bitch about your problems. Don't bitch about how hard it is because this is what you signed up for. Like you specifically signed up to be an entrepreneur. You signed up to impact people's lives all over the world. You signed up to constantly push yourself and you know, not even from the perspective of like, don't ever complain so much as own your shit.
::Corey
Own the fact that this is what you signed up for. And you know, I I'm a huge fan of journaling and reflecting and on how like where you're at right now and where you used to be. And one of the most common things that I, in my own journaling practice, I reflect on is like, whatever the fuck I'm going through.
::Corey
I was like, this is what you signed up for? Not learning how to navigate this particular moment of discomfort, or when you feel overwhelmed, or it feels like everything's on a razor's edge right now. This is what you signed up for, this tension, this moment, comes with the path you have chosen to be on. And this is the thing that is the reason most people don't pursue this path.
::Corey
Because most people are unwilling to pay this price. They are unwilling to deal with this level of discomfort. And there's a certain. I don't want to say serenity, but there's a certain acceptance of like, it's okay that I feel like this right now because this is what I signed up for. This is part of my path. What are your thoughts on that?
::Dan
Sucks.
::Dan
In a bow. One of the stories I believe I've shared with you, when I was on your podcast, was like, being told by all these people who didn't know what to say to me as I was going through what many people went through in the pandemic of losing, like, everything, and so did my partner. So we're really trying to figure out what's going on.
::Dan
I almost lost my, rental house. At the time. There was just a lot of pressure and a lot of things we had no control over very quickly. You can't do anything about this. Even if you had money. Good luck. You know, so there's a little bit of, like, woe is me, a pity party. And then there was, you know, all these people that I was reaching out to as I was kind of coming out the other side of that, there were like, you know, it's a good thing you're so resilient or I've always known you as a resilient person.
::Dan
You're going to pull through this. So like, man and you've been through worse. Like you got this, all that stuff the first 11 times until 12 time, which was my buddy Rob Bogan that I talk about all the time. I got on the phone with him like, can I complain to you about something and it might offend you, but don't let it offend you because we're going somewhere with this.
::Dan
He was the 12th one that told me that, and I was so angry when I heard it. And I know him so well, is a good friend that I was like, can I share with you how angry this makes me? But you didn't do anything wrong. I just want to share. It was, you know, I said a very specific thing on the fly, and now it's part of that story.
::Dan
Every time I tell it. And it was. When does resiliency become stupidity? And maybe you should stay down instead of getting punched in the face again, because there's got to be a time. There's got to be a time where you feign the TKO, maybe, or you are on your hands and knees, bleeding from the mouth, and you wipe and see it, and you take a couple five, six, seven, eight extra breaths to collect your thoughts.
::Dan
Make a plan before you get up and reengage. And then as time transpired, we move forward. A lot of great things have happened since. And, you know, I remember looking back and saying that, you know, everyone was right and thank God they had the bravery to tell me, hey, you're resilient. I've seen it before in your life. You can do this.
::Dan
You can stand back up. You're going to find a way because I feel like them saying that was equivalent to, people who are around, people who cry and they don't know what to do with themselves, and they just want the person to stop crying. Like, the thing I hate the most in life is when I hear someone tell someone else, don't cry or stop crying.
::Dan
I'm just like you. Shut up and let them cry. Like, I think the hardest thing to do oftentimes in those situations is be. And a lot of times what people need is someone to just be, just be right there and just sit. And you don't have to solve my problem. And the feeling of not being alone while I'm crying is enough.
::Dan
Thank you. Or I need some space to cry alone. And you're perceptive to that. And you leave all those things that's hard to do because I don't want to see anyone cry either. But my instincts nowadays aren't fix their problem. It's be. And I feel like this this time in business, in life is kind of like that, where it's like when I pull upon what I've known before is you've been here before.
::Dan
This is okay. We're we do this on purpose. This is part of the deal. But I still find sometimes I long for a little bit of reprieve, and you can't, like, ask for something, and then someone hands it to you and you batted away. You know, it's like now we asked. We ask for this. And when you asked for it for this long, like it's not a question anymore.
::Dan
Do I really want this right now? I've been after this for decades. So, like, you just have to kind of accept, you know, what's what's happening. But there's just those times it just gets super irritating feeling bad about something. I don't feel like I should feel bad about is a weird.
::Dan
That's it.
::Corey
That's it. So champagne problems are still problems. And this is one of the biggest things that people, when they achieve a certain modicum of success, really struggle with. Because it's basically I have no right to complain or I have no right to feel like I'm struggling right now because I have succeeded or I am succeeding, or I am doing so much.
::Corey
Therefore, it's a problem with me that I should keep to myself. I should suffer in silence because this is a champagne problem. No one will have empathy for me. I don't deserve to complain about this. I don't deserve to, you know, to whine or whatever. Right? And the champagne problems are still fucking problems, right? I hate the term champagne problems because it inherently minimizes the the gravity of what you're going through.
::Dan
Yeah, yeah.
::Corey
And this is why so many people at a certain point can feel so isolated and and lonely or alone is, is just like I have I have no who am I to complain? I have no right to complain. It's like.
::Corey
That's such a limiting belief that keeps you from connecting with people, that keeps you from exploring the deep like emotional aspects of what you're going through.
::Dan
Yeah, yeah. And I wouldn't I mean, very truthfully, I wouldn't trade it. I won't fully go on a tangent here, but we've revamped our newsletter and, one of the early additions that I'm pre-writing. So we got a little bit in the can for the launch is on Maslow's and I, I've always utilized it as this visual in video and how to relate to other people, and in brushing up and studying and all the stuff I've done to make this, you know, broadcast a really good one.
::Dan
I came across this little self-made documentary, which is really just a guy sitting in a chair in his studio making a YouTube video, but a lot of like references to Maslow's studies and published papers and all these different things. And I found somewhere in there that there's like this, this breaking point as you kind of ascended the pyramid, if you will, where the things that you're driven to solve and need food, water, you know, house, those things.
::Dan
At some point when those are fulfilled, we don't all have a mechanism in us to continue to push and grow. And then so that's the first like fracture and then what's left. And I'm oversimplifying this big time. But like what's left is two camps and that is I'm choosing to try to find a steam and maybe try to find self-actualization.
::Dan
And then I'm burdened with the fact that I can't not. And I sometimes feel like I look at people who are choosing to be intellectual and self-aware and learn as a little bit of jealousy, because I'm traveling the same road, like there's someone at my back with a shotgun saying, keep it moving, you know? But but there is no shotgun, man.
::Dan
There's just me and my moth. The flame ness that exists, you know, and and sometimes that is like, again, frustrating. Like, I don't feel bad about many of these things. I feel irritated by them. And that bums me out because I'm in a constant state of irritability, and it feels like it never gets to kind of soothe and chill.
::Corey
And so I'll come back to messier because I have thoughts. But, so like with with with me, if I talk to you about doing jujitsu, you might intellectually understand it. You may understand like, oh, it's hard. You're always done with injuries or like minor aches and pains. It takes a long time to get a black belt.
::Corey
It's a very hard, physically and intellectually demanding, martial art. But it's different than if I'm wearing a jiu jitsu shirt and I see another person at the grocery store with a jujitsu shirt, it's like, oh, I immediately get it, and I know that you get it. And there's so much unspoken this there. Right. Or like, you know, I'm in a couple other organizations and things, and if I see somebody, with a who signals that they're in this organizations like I understand, a lot of implicit things that only if you've done this do you fully get.
::Corey
And it's the same thing with entrepreneurship, right? It's like when you meet somebody else who's an entrepreneur, you're like, I get you. And I know that you get me in a way that nobody else unless you have actually, like, not just read all the fucking business books, not like just put up a little fucking whatever. Like if you've actually been in it for years and you've hit these painful points that are like where there's a champagne problem, or whether it's just like the deeply emotional and psychological aspects, the inner game of entrepreneurship or like, fuck, how am I going to pay the bills?
::Corey
How am I going to make payroll? How am I going to like whatever, right? Or like, oh, I put three months into this launch and it didn't go well for reasons outside of my actual control because of macroeconomic factors. Right. Or something like that. Right. Or like when you're early on, you're like, I'm not getting enough signal to know what is working and what isn't because I have so few people I'm reaching.
::Corey
Right? All of those things. When you meet another entrepreneur like they get it and there's a there's a real camaraderie in that because there's so much that is unspoken or even sometimes unspeakable when it comes to entrepreneurship. And that's right. Where you're at right now is a huge part of that, that that almost unspeakable, ineffable aspect of entrepreneurship.
::Dan
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I relate to it's almost like like, oh, here I can speak my mother tongue. Exactly. Don't be like, what do you do for a living? Yeah. Now I feel that for sure. And it kind of leads into, you know, some of these similar thoughts of I think I might have mentioned to you, I went to a business conference a few months back, and the very short versions, I didn't belong there anymore.
::Dan
And last time I was at it, I did, and I was like, well, I have outgrown this way of thinking, this place, this level and upfront. There was a little bit of like, I could feel kind of bad because like, I'm not struggling and things are great and blah, blah, blah. And everyone around here is like, entrepreneurship will kick you in the teeth and you got to get back up.
::Dan
And I'm like, that's absolutely true. But also it's not supposed to kick in the teeth forever. It will pose problems to you, but they shouldn't all be ones where you're bleeding all the time. And then I was like, on lunch one day. Everyone around me is like struggling and I'm not judging them. I was there, right? And I'm like, yeah, I'm in and I'm trying to give any insight I can.
::Dan
And some of the insight was decent because I had been there, so that felt kind of good. But there was a realization as I went to my car, as everyone went to their cars and went home for the night of like, well, now how do I identify these people? I can talk to you fucking get this, you know, because I don't know.
::Dan
And there's there's always been a part of me in there. Always will. I reach back and grab someone's hand too, for sure. But like, I also still need to keep reaching forward and grab some hand. So like, how do I identify those people? And, that's been kind of like on my radar. Not to figure out the problem, but to scan at least.
::Dan
And if something pops up, experiment or poke at it or ask questions or whatever. And hopefully I'm growing and making better decisions just out of being willing to say in front of the world, I have no idea what I'm doing. I hope that clears the space to then learn what to do next, or the at least a rough direction to go.
::Corey
So. So here's the thing. Related to this thing about Maslow, there are a lot of different variations of Maslow's hierarchy of needs and updates and all this other shit, but the very simple version that most people are familiar with is like the regular, like five tiered one, right? And the top tier is self-actualization. And then the tier right below that is the esteemed tier.
::Corey
In the esteem tier generally is I make good money. I have fancy titles. People think I'm important. I have, like the quote unquote American Dream, kind of white picket fence life shit. And the original.
::Dan
::Corey
The most common version is that he said less than 1% of people are ever able to go from the esteemed tier to the self-actualization tier. So not that 99% of people never self-actualize according to that, that model. Right? I personally, I don't think that it is that many people don't have the desire or the capacity necessarily. I deeply believe that oftentimes it comes down to fear to some degree, whether it is, you know, we in the cohort, we talk a lot about vulnerability.
::Corey
We talk a lot about feeling exposed or learning to trust yourself, learning to give yourself permission to do the thing or just learning to be in the shit and like, sit with that and be like you said before, right? That to me is much more the cause of that chasm than, oh, well, I don't know what I want to do.
::Corey
I don't know what self-actualization looks like to me. Like most people, if you get them like, you know, a little buzzed or they're sitting around a campfire for a long time or like one of those other just like deeply contemplative, like mental states, they typically actually know what they deeply want to do. And then they're like, but here are all the reasons I can't or I am attempting it and it feels so hard and I don't.
::Corey
I feel that because it feels hard or because imposter syndrome is kicking in, I feel that that is a sign I need to back off. Because shouldn't it feel easy? Shouldn't it feel effortless? Because that's what all the fat the fucking gurus tell me? Oh, do the thing that feels effortless to you, that feels, you know, like work to everybody.
::Corey
All that stupid ass bullshit that leads people astray. Like the most aligned natural thing for you, the most intrinsically fulfilling thing for you will.
::Dan
Still.
::Corey
Feel effortful as fuck at times, period. It will still feel hard. It will still feel overwhelming. They're not mutually exclusive. So here's my thing for you, man. We opened up. You talked about, this example, you know, with with, you know, you went through this whole hiring process and then you ended up having to fire them because it wasn't fit.
::Corey
What is the thing you're actually struggling with?
::Dan
::Corey
Because it's not that that's a symptom at most.
::Dan
Yeah. Like going into the cohort, I, I knew I wasn't familiar with your Four Horsemen, but I already had kind of named my fear. And then when I saw the horsemen, I'm like, oh, that's exactly what my brain was kind of trying to say, which was the uncertainty horsemen. And like. I. Like everything I teach in my business is a spectrum.
::Dan
And everyone, I swear to God, it's not fair to say all and never and always. But like, I swear, everyone just sees the two ends of the spectrum and thinks that it's an ab choice and you got to be one of them. And I'm like, no one's on the ends. But it's so rare, you know? We're all in the middle somewhere.
::Dan
And so, like, I feel the, the ab ness of everything I know, everything I come up against has another side to the coin. Like, I don't ever take anything at face value. And I've been that way pretty much my whole life. So when I come up against something like the hiring thing or, you know, we had some, uncertainty with the client, we don't know if they're moving forward and stuff.
::Dan
And my brain goes straight to like, all right, if they're gone, we're going to do this. They're going to move ours over to this area. I got to make sure everything's okay. I can't just let this, like, bottom fall out, blah, blah, blah. Also, we have to, you know, treat them well, see if the problem can be solved.
::Dan
Do we want to move forward and present all opportunities and all that kind of stuff too? So there's like two sides to to everything that's going on. And I feel like that simultaneous ness is where that uncertainty comes from. Not everything's Navy choice. I got to make one, but it's like nothing is crystal clear. Like when people use that term crystal clear for any reason around me, you know, whatever TV show someone in a conversation, it kind of like hits a nerve because I'm like, that's it's fucking crystal clear.
::Dan
Like, so there's that feeling, right, of uncertainty that's caused by this. Can there ever be certainty? I mean, I remember I was, I was standing at the top of Machu Picchu and I got away from all the people. It was a pretty late tourist day anyway, so it's kind of great, but I got away from all the people, and there's these two different things you could climb.
::Dan
There's the paid climb, but then there's two free ones. And I went on the one that didn't seem as popular because it didn't go as high. And I ended up on this landing that was about the size of a house. And you look up the front and you see the terraces and some of the people and the, you know, ruins and all the incredible stuff.
::Dan
But then you could turn around, look out the back and see down a mountain to a river. And it was just nature. And I walked to the back and looked down and I kind of just barely audibly whispered, awesome. But I didn't make a choice to say the word awesome because I thought what was in front of me was awesome.
::Dan
I said it very purely, and as I heard myself say it, it was like I was someone else. I'm like, whoa, I might have just used that word in its actual meaning for the first time in my life, and that felt really powerful to me. I was like, whoa, that I'm so insignificant, especially in this moment, in this place and all that kind of stuff.
::Dan
And in that moment, I felt like I understood something. And then ten minutes later, we're doing something else. We're moving. I got bit by, but just sand fleas, like all kinds of shit went. So it's like I had a moment and then it passed and problems reemerge or whatever. So I feel like when something like the hiring thing comes up, it's not the hiring thing we've been through.
::Dan
I've hired tons of people in my life like, and then we're going to get through it. I know we're a great place to work, and we're spending so much time building systems and creating environments that are great for people to work in. Like, that's my dream. My dream is always been to have something big enough to employ people, and maybe they don't hate what they do, but it's a reminder of this unknown that seems to constantly be there no matter what decisions you make.
::Dan
But I feel like I'm making a choice to always want to learn. Be self-aware Self-Actualize grow any of those things you're making a decision to just, like, permanently be in this fog of like, what the hell am I? And the older you get, you're just further and further away from wherever you started. So there's not even really a sense of home anymore.
::Dan
There's, you know, it's probably why I always loved the The Odyssey so much, because it was just. Maybe we'll go home one day. But in the meantime, we're going to deal with all kinds of crazy stuff along the way. So.
::Corey
Well, it's this idea of, in one way or another, you're always kind of in the middle. Yeah, but we think being in the middle is somehow bad. We always want to be on the other side of the middle.
::Dan
Yeah, yeah.
::Corey
And not even in like a always, you know, the goal post is always moving so much as the end is always out of reach. Right? Because he was like, oh, I finish this thing. But that was actually just like a milestone on this much larger journey. Fuck, I'm still in the middle.
::Dan
Dude, that hurt. Yeah.
::Corey
So it's like, you know, what? Do you want to be in the middle of, right? Like, what are you willing to be the middle of?
::Dan
So we, we watched this show called The Sandman again. I love gods and all that stuff. So, like, right up my alley. I love the show. And there's enough beauty and and gothic ness and and coolness to the whole thing where Jax is on board completely, but for different reasons, you know, and enjoyed watching this show together.
::Dan
And one of the family of the endless is Destiny. And he carries this big book and it's got everything that's going to happen in it because he's destiny. And at some point, hopefully this doesn't ruin too much for someone if they happen to watch it or whatever. But like at some point there's a realization amongst some characters that end up mattering quite a bit that the book is writing itself as stuff is happening.
::Dan
And when that scene the first time, they like references and they actually show you finally that as someone wants answers, the book is like and you're like, oh my God, dude, destiny don't even know. Destiny doesn't even know what the hell is going on next. Like that's crazy. And I felt something in that that moment of like, there's there's not answers, there's just no answers.
::Dan
And I don't know why I crave answers so much. I don't know if it's just the, like, reptilian brain wanting comfort, because I feel like we all kind of just want to do enough not to die, but also be comfortable, because that's what evolution is in my eyes, is kind of trying to find equilibrium as a species. I don't know if maybe I'm far enough along in the evolutionary chain where I'm like, you know, 9 to 5 beer football weekend.
::Dan
That's that can't be all there is to life, you know. So I'm like driven intrinsically to find more or whatever. But yeah, man, that's all part of my head. When you said that was The book of Destiny isn't even foreshadowing. It's just taking record. And I'm like, come on, man, like the oldest, wisest chillest of all the siblings in that show.
::Dan
And he even has to kind of be like, I don't know, man, what are you going to do next on you? Tell me. Yeah.
::Corey
Well, you talk about reptilian brain shit like answers represent survival. Because if I know what's going to happen or if I know how to deal with what happens, I can survive.
::Dan
Yeah.
::Corey
So the lack of answers, the lack of certainty, mentally represents danger, potential of death, all this other shit. Right? That's why we crave certainty. We crave answers because we think that that will help us survive to some degree. Entrepreneurship doesn't have certainty much of the time, even because even like, you know, black swan events happen, like even shit like that, right?
::Corey
Like even like really solid companies, tons of resources, tons of, you know, market penetration, like, well, also shit, even they can get fucked sometimes. That and that's also again live with there's like that, you know, bridging that gap to self-actualization. There's not certainty there. There aren't real answers there. Best practices for sure, but even best practices can fall flat sometimes it is constant learning, constant pivot and constant iteration.
::Corey
Constant okay, what works, what didn't. And why? What was our reasoning for making this decision? And then what outcomes did that decision lead to? Even if the decision led to outcomes we didn't like, was the decision in the moment based on good reason or not?
::Dan
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So frustrating is probably not the truth. But the feeling is of this. Like I want like you said, I want what's on the other side. And what's extra maddening about that is I know myself well enough at this stage in my life that, like, I know if I got whatever the hell I thought that was, I would be miserable.
::Dan
Like, I already know that. And it isn't just the thought of like, well, I've heard people say, it's like I know it. I've had a couple days where everything is done, all boxes ticked, team is screaming like things are chugging, money's being made. I have nothing to do as an owner. And I'm like, pacing the floor downstairs, like, all right, we gotta.
::Dan
I mean, we can't waste this time. We got to build something or whatever. Been the last time I had to physically, like, stop myself, like, grab a sandwich, sit on the couch, watch Lord of the rings. Like, stop, bro. It is, it is interesting, though, that, like I keep saying, there's like these two camps and I know there's not.
::Dan
We're all experiencing similar things, but I feel like there's a camp of people who can just find contentment. And then those of us who are restless forever. And I do wish sometimes that, you know, I was content. And then my next thought is, no, you don't like you would go crazy if someone just showed up. You know?
::Dan
And hey, you won the lotto for that, like paid for life. And you get 20 grand a month that shows up in your mailbox. You don't even have to go anywhere. I would go crazy. I'd have to go invent something, do something, build something, help someone. I would have to, because I know I could not just veg out and, you know, watch TV for the rest of my life.
::Dan
::Corey
That's what your.
::Dan
Happiness and.
::Corey
That's. But that's it, right? Like, I don't know, entrepreneurs who, like, fully cash out there, like I never do anything ever again. There's always a second act. There's always the next mountain. There's always like, even if they go into, like, philanthropy or some shit, like there's always a thing because they're like, look, the reason I went into this in the first place is for impact is for, you know, ripple effects is to build something real that meaningfully improves the state of the world to some degree.
::Corey
And that is the thing that is inherent to my being is wanting to make change, wanting to to have an impact that doesn't go away with money. The biggest theme so far for today and like you said, like, you know, with the Alchemy Fear cohort and with a lot of other things, centers around uncertainty and fear of uncertainty and trying to wrestle with uncertainty.
::Corey
For me, man, uncertainty is agency in disguise because being uncertain means you have a choice. If you didn't have a choice, you would have certainty of this is the only way to do this. This is my only option.
::Corey
And you can see that as a gift or a curse of there is too. I am overwhelmed, there's too many decisions, or I have the freedom to choose what I want to do and how I do it.
::Dan
Yeah.
::Corey
Uncertainty is agency in disguise. What are your thoughts on that?
::Dan
Can I have another response from like, this sucks. Man, it hit me. Why? While you're saying it. Because it's it's just so true. It's so true. And it's why I can so easily say out loud with confidence, you know, man, it would be nice to have, like, a 9 to 5 and punch out on Friday and just, like, drink beer and watch football and feel the reprieve of a weekend.
::Dan
And, this is so nice. You know, I worked hard all week just to get this whatever. And then, I mean, it's so it's so palpable right after the, literal. And I'm not being dramatic, like the literal nausea that comes when I allow myself to have those thoughts of, like, oh, I can never like I could never the last like, job.
::Dan
Job I had was still a partnership with someone where I had a ton of freedom, made side money, and was developing my own business while I work for them. And they knew that that was part of the deal. So even when I had my last job, job, it was not a typical job. And, you know, I recently heard someone talking about, hoping to to get a raise because they've done all this work and they've really proven themselves and all this different stuff.
::Dan
And I had the thought internally, of course, I'm not an A-hole. Whereas like, oh, thank thank God next year I can just give myself a raise and I don't have to wait for someone else to give me permission. I just have to put more things in place and grow more and learn more and do more and find more people to give me their money.
::Dan
Like there is an out there. It doesn't have to be a ceiling. I don't have to ever experience again. I hope they give me, you know, a 5% raise because I think I deserve it. If I feel like I deserve it, I go find it, you know? And that doesn't mean it's guaranteed or I'll always make money the year before, but I know it's there.
::Dan
And I am like, man, it's kind of nice. So yeah, I relate to that quite a bit. I also wish I knew, and maybe there's an answer to this that you can point me at for another time. But like, I also wish I knew why out of all the things that drive us as animals that I understand, like, oh, that makes sense.
::Dan
Oh, they've studied that and that conclusion makes sense to me. Oh yeah. Why we have this like, I wonder what it's like over there or the grass and grass is greener type thought process as animals, why do we care? Especially if things are going good? Why do we care what's over there? What's he got or she got her?
::Dan
Does the grass taste different over there because I'm stuck on the side of the fence or whatever?
::Corey
Survival.
::Dan
Yeah.
::Corey
It's survival of is there something better over there that will better help me survive? Maybe there are more nutrients over there. Maybe it is, an easier life over there that there are fewer dangers. Right? Like it's that constant curiosity, that constant exploration that historically has helped us survive as a species because we're like, oh, there's some stuff over here, but there's more stuff over there, and more means better to us.
::Dan
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That also made me think of something else I think about quite a bit, which is like anyone we celebrate, they have generally they have these either milestones or like bodies of work that exist before. They're not here anymore. And we point at those things. Yet when you dig into what makes someone great, there's generally unfinished business, lack of resolve, tortured a lot of incredible artists that we celebrate to this day of all kinds are tortured, like there's a lot of like, oh, there might have been milestones or a body of work, but it really is not this complete thing that was made and done and polished and look world and then
::Dan
they die. It was this ongoing, like torture and evolution and what am I trying to find and share and what's, you know, like if you look at any great artist that was brave enough to keep painting when they felt pain, you see these chapters throughout their work where things change, sometimes very dramatically, and it's like, oh yeah, there was a human on the other side of that brush.
::Dan
You probably going through some things, I don't know. I think the only thing that that's more frustrating than being frustrated is knowing why. Like we built this way, deal with this and like, come on.
::Corey
Well, and one thing I'm sure I've told you before, which is something I tell like, oh my gosh. And clients is you don't have simple problems because if you had a simple problem, you would have already solved it. You're plenty smart, plenty talented, plenty of whatever you no longer have simple problems, which means any problem you have is inherently deeply existential and complicated.
::Corey
That's why it is still here. If it was simple, it have already been solved. So like learning to like, give yourself some grace of like, oh, okay. That's why this feels like such a struggle. This is why I still have this, this thing, even though I'm super smart, even though I've done so much, it's because it is deeply existential, deeply complex.
::Corey
And that's okay.
::Dan
Yeah.
::Corey
And do you like navigating uncertainty? To one degree or another, is why the entirety of organized religion, of philosophy, of most books, like human History, is sort of focused toward helping people navigate uncertainty.
::Dan
Yeah, it's.
::Corey
Not just a you thing.
::Dan
You have. Right. I think if there is any hope for that kind of self-actualization or transcendence beyond just accepting what is and not really pushing past that, You have to also, I guess at the same time admit that this is all kind of crazy and we only have so much time to do it. So like, I got to believe that whatever men are living to now, 78 or whatever, like I gotta believe that's not enough years to figure anything out.
::Dan
So you also have to accept the fact that as much as I figure out, I probably still won't have any answers. So how do we turn that into accepting what's happening now as just part of that journey? That that particular thing, outside of the madness, has always hurt my brain a bit of, you know, it's not the destination, it's the journey.
::Dan
And on paper, I understand that, but I don't feel like I've ever felt that. Like, I'm just so glad to be just, like building a business today, you know what I mean? I don't know if I've ever felt like the journey is the joy of it all, because it's usually the solving of the problem. I'll be most, tiny or the completing of the project or the, you know, movement forward, or the client paycheck coming in, or the hire working out or whatever.
::Dan
Those feel like things that, are in and of themselves as opposed to part of the journey. So I struggle with that thought a little bit of like, what for me is believing that the journey is actually the the good part when you're in that madness looking at just problem to problem to problem, like, what am I fixing?
::Dan
What am I doing, who am I? All the things, yeah. And out of all of this to, I'm not complaining about being frustrated. I'm just honest enough to say that feeling frustrated doesn't feel good. I'm not trying to avoid it, but it is the thing that I can most easily identify most days is like, yeah, this is kind of even the good stuff is frustrating.
::Dan
It's like, okay, what next? Or how do we spend this money that did come in? Or like, what should I do? Or it still turns into frustration eventually. So, I don't even know where I'm going with this. I think I'm just vomiting at this point in time. Like the feelings. I don't know what insight.
::Corey
Belief, or approach are you walking away with based on what we've talked about today.
::Dan
I feel like every time I interact with you, there's some kind of like, oh yeah, and today's is as generic as it sounds. It is that there's like power and acceptance because acceptance doesn't automatically mean staying where you are. So that would probably be. Yeah. What I feel like I'm walking away with is a healthy level of acceptance.
::Corey
Acceptance of what?
::Dan
Probably that, you know, this is, part of the journey. It's it comes with the territory. It's not a bad thing. Acceptance that there's no finish line. You know, I don't know, it's just another version of having talked to you. And you say some stuff and I'm like, yeah, that is kind of the way it is, isn't it?
::Dan
And there's an acceptance of that.
::Dan
Diagnosis, if you will, like. Oh yeah. And I never feel like, I think I mentioned you previously, being in therapy at a certain time in my life and the, the doctor being like, man, you're like a poster child for for therapy because you just took the tools and implemented them and you got results. And that makes me, you know, really happy for you.
::Dan
And of course, my default was like, well, I'm paying you, bro. Like, if I implement what you said and it doesn't work, like, screw you, buddy, get a different, you know, job or whatever. I have always kind of like been that way though. If there's a track record and, you know, I'm still, like, setting boundaries and gut check and stuff as I go, but if they're if you've got 15 years into something, I'm going to listen to you, you know, and there's an acceptance in that too, I believe, of none of this has ever been about like, I think I know everything.
::Dan
It's, you know, every time I see and this is probably not true, but it's a feeling I have every time I see that Dunning-Kruger graph, I'm like, I've been on the other end of that for so long. And it's not because I think I'm smarter know a bunch of stuff. It's because I've felt the frustration of what I assume it feels like to be.
::Dan
I know what I don't know, and man, is that frustrating, you know? So acceptance of those things I think comes into play too, of like, no, that makes sense. What you've pointed out today makes sense. There's been 2 or 3 times where I'm like, the pain of what you're saying is like, oh yeah, that is the way it is, isn't it?
::Dan
Yeah. Has a little bit of joy in it because there's revelation and, I think one of the pains of growth being acceptance is something they just have to accept. I keep visualizing, which I think is super cool, like sword smithing and knife smithing and stuff. And there's always that. I don't remember the term for it, but as they're hitting a piece of steel, there'll be these chunks that just like, like sloughed off almost.
::Dan
And it's so crazy that hitting something removes, you understand the bending and the shaping and stuff, but the removal part is like, oh, it didn't need that. That's kind of cool. You know, I've been seeing that kind of blacksmithing, you know, image in my head for the last half hour or so. And I like that's part of it.
::Dan
Right. Like that's acceptance. We don't need this part. And the quench along the way is acceptance of this is going to hurt and it's going to disrupt everything around you. But it's part of the process of getting better and becoming stronger. Like, yeah, just yeah. I think the takeaway is acceptance of what I'm feeling and going through is part of the the whole thing.
::Dan
Yeah. Doesn't mean I love it though. Maybe that's the part I'll figure out when I'm old. Old.
::Corey
It kind of goes back to you before you said, you know, just like with so much crying, it's like sometimes it's just about it isn't about solving, it's about being. An acceptance is a form of being. You can't really integrate what you don't accept.
::Corey
And or, you know, even like with, you know, like addiction shit. Right? Or like admitting you have a problem is the first step to recovery. Like whatever, right? Like the acceptance of this is an aspect, an unavoidable aspect of the journey. I've chosen to be on. And until I learned to accept, I cannot go further than I have gone so far in thinking about, like how how much of the growth I say I want or the the joy.
::Corey
I say I want the fulfillment. I say I want self-actualization, whatever. How much of that is predicated on my ability to accept certain parts? Because that acceptance is the threshold to go further?
::Dan
Yeah.
::Dan
Yeah, man. Something this is going to be overly dramatic. And I don't mean it to be. But when you think of the scenario of, someone, someone passing away and someone else being involved accidentally. So maybe you were driving, you got in a wreck and someone with you passed away or whatever, and you're instantaneously put in this position of.
::Dan
Had I just went to this diner to have breakfast instead of that one, I wasn't the picture up until this time. And none of this would have happened to whatever you're like. The universe gives you that boom. You now have to deal with this. In that case, survivor's guilt. But whatever. Like this. Like, if my choices would have been different, there's there possibly could have been a different outcome.
::Dan
And again, I'm not diminishing that at all, but using it as just this hypothetical, I sometimes look at, you know, entrepreneurship as like being aware whether you want to or not, that getting in the car means we could die today and one of those death outcomes could be you die, and I don't, and it's terrible forever. You don't think that when you jump in the car with your friend, you think this part is going to be sweet or, like, can't wait to buy that bag at the mall or whatever?
::Dan
And I feel like entrepreneurship is always, always, always being aware that someone could die on this trip. It's probably not probable, but you know, you are making that decision. It's like self-imposed or not, I don't know. It's like every decision has weight when we get to go through regular life, oftentimes not having that weight because our brain's gotten really good at like disguising the fact that everything we do is actually kind of monumental.
::Dan
That's what acceptance feels like to me, is like purposefully making decisions that are difficult, even if they're not on paper, difficult decisions. They still have weight because you've been doing it long enough to know that at some point, something will go a certain way, and you'll know that you not only made that decision, you thought about it, you calculated it.
::Dan
You did your best to use everything you had at the time to make the best possible. And still something went a certain way. And the reprieve I've spoke of throughout this conversation is that one of. It'd be nice just to get in the car and go to the movies or whatever, and not think about crashing, you know?
::Dan
But I feel like in business, every decision is predicated with that. This could go terribly wrong. And I think that's where that uncertainty, being the big horseman for me, has come from. It's like, I don't mind making a decision, messing up. I don't mind being wrong. I love saying sorry as much as that hurts. I know that being accountable is a growth mechanism.
::Dan
And so it's important, you know, to admit when you're wrong. It's tough. Like, I know all those things, even though they hurt in the moment, lead to better things. But.
::Dan
It doesn't make any of those experiences any less. You know, bristly. Yeah. Acceptance.
::Corey
Well, acceptance is also a form of ownership and responsibility. And really power. Right? You know, we you know, Jocko, extreme ownership and, you know, whatever that has helped a lot of people. But it's it's about owning your decisions. Right. Again, like uncertainty is, agency in disguise. Learning to accept this is the decision I'm making or accepting. I can never know the outcome of the decision I make before I make it so.
::Corey
My responsibility, what is within my power is how can I make the best decision based upon information I have available to me today? I'm not a fortune teller. I can't know the outcome, but I can say, how do I make the best decision today with what I have? And let me accept that this is as much as I can feasibly do.
::Corey
Let me accept that this emotion that I'm going through right now is part of this journey, is part of what it means to be an entrepreneur, is part of what I have signed up to do, because I have the freedom of choice to choose this path, and there is a huge disconnect or not even a disconnect, a huge gap between the intellectual part of this and the emotional part.
::Corey
Like intellectually, okay, I've accepted that and I understand it. But until you feel that acceptance, until you feel that, okay, that's what you're actually trying to go through. And I'm like, dude, I'm not an emotional guy. Like, I, I value stoicism, both uppercase and lowercase, stoicism. Even back when I did therapy people, it was always a joke of like, I was the least emotion focused psychologist you would meet.
::Corey
I was very focused on on the logic side of it, like, okay, let's think through this. What if you got anxiety? Well, what fucked up thoughts are you having that are leading to this anxiety? Not how do you learn to like emotionally? You know, it's like, no, no rational rationalizing reasoning logic like that. That has always been me historically.
::Corey
And it's still largely is. However, there there's a certain point where you can't think your way through something. There's a certain point where you've thought as much as you fucking can, and you still have it come out the other side. And the reason for that is, at a certain point, thinking isn't enough. At a certain point, you have to be like, how do I take this from just the intellectual side into the emotional side?
::Corey
How do I integrate this beyond my brain into my actual being, my, my body? And that is exceedingly difficult, especially when you're the type of person and this is me, especially when you're the type of person who does it like to fuck with emotions. But so and this is due, this is all like I'm such a huge fan of like navigating the inner game of entrepreneurship, because that's the missing piece for most people.
::Corey
It's not that you don't have the right tactics, the right strategies. You're not intelligent of all that shit. Most people generally either have or can cultivate well enough. For most of us, the real hindrance is all the the inner game, the emotional game, the the psychological aspects. It's not all this other shit, because if you look on paper, you probably have all that shit on locked.
::Dan
Yeah, yeah, I think that's why I've felt and I don't like run around saying this. I said don't want to offend people, thinking I actually mean it. But like, I've always looked at the corporate structure as people's way of being able to get in the car and not think about crashing, but just think about where are you going?
::Dan
I'm just going to go to work. Got a paycheck. I've done good this year. I got a raise. I moved to a different department. Company's growing. I might be able to work in another state where it's warmer and someone, somewhere is working. I getting leads for that fucking company so people can keep getting paid, you know? And I've looked at that oftentimes being like, there are some components that are kind of nice where you can just kind of not think about the real hard things going on behind the scenes that make a company work.
::Dan
Yeah. It I even even after all of today's discovery and acceptance on the fly, I wouldn't trade it. I wouldn't trade it at all. It's, Yeah, it's a journey. I wouldn't go back to the beginning of and pick a different route. Yeah. So I guess that's some form of acceptance in itself. Is. Yeah. When, if I could, I wouldn't I, like, get there.
::Dan
I hope I'm seeing some moments here and there. I always call them sparks in anything I do. Just little sparks or little bits of proof that something exists. I don't need the full picture, always. Just a little bit of like, oh, that might work. Or oh, we got some, you know, traction over here or whatever. And I was at a, yellow of concert.
::Dan
I spent a big fan and like their local and they happened to be at a venue that, is part of the family of restaurants and entertainment at the Jax part of. And I see shows come all the time where I'm slightly intrigued them. And I don't know because they're not my favorite bands, but like, we got a show or whatever, and I saw yellow coming through.
::Dan
I'm like, this is hilarious. Like, he's one of those guys that no one knows. I like him. And I say, I'm like, what? You listen to him like, what the hell? I saw a show coming up. I'm like, oh, dude, we we got to go to that. Like, I can't not he's right down the road. And then she came back.
::Dan
She's like, I got a sweet were booked. It's done all the stuff in my car, babe. Thanks. You know and and we knew it was coming up. So we go to the show and we're in a suite and there's only a very small percentage of people who have the vantage point we have and all this different stuff, and we're just rocking out, doing our thing.
::Dan
And at some point in time, you know, I made sure, again, to kind of lean in and like, thank you for putting this together, make it happen. And obviously you could like maybe buy your way into this thing. But I know we're here because of you and who you know and what you can do and pull off and all that kind of stuff.
::Dan
And if you don't know, I could have been a half hour later, but a little bit later. During one of the quiet parts, she kind of leaned over and she's like, you remember when we, you know, I took you to see him in Detroit all those years ago? And I'm like, yeah. And she's like, who would have thought standing on that concrete floor with like, GA tickets and people spilling drinks and sweating on me and stuff that just this amount of time later would be fake bougie up in the suites watching this, you know, and enjoying ourselves, I was like, man, I'm so glad you said that.
::Dan
Like, I need these moments of, like, yeah, look where we are. Because most of the time it's just eyes on the road, eyes on the road. Don't crash. Make sure the fuel in the tank. All right? Kids are okay, all right? You know, and you don't always get those moments of, like, pull off. Here's this, like, vantage point.
::Dan
There's three parking spots. Look over how pretty it is. You know. So I told her a couple times, I'm so glad you said that out loud because. Yeah, yeah. Like, look at this. You know, this is super cool. Acceptance. I hope that part of that journey is getting more and more clarity on, like stopping for those moments. Yeah, smell the roses for a minute type of stuff.
::Dan
I hope I don't let too many of those things go by, but. Those are, I think, my milestones, you know, it's going to be those moments where you're like. Equally as indecisive as I am in this new land I've never seen before, it's kind of pretty. I've I've never seen this forest before or that animal or these, you know, flower.
::Dan
It's like, I like that. It's a bit poetic.
::Corey
Any other questions, comments, concerns for today?
::Dan
No. I appreciate the work you do. You just know there's nothing else. I guess there's just this. You know, what's funny is you laughing. I know you know why I'm laughing. Even though there's not a set reason. It's just. Here we are. This is acceptance is giggling at the absurdity of it all. I guess. But no, no, I mean, I appreciate your work and, I think my hand's got some blisters today, so.
::Dan
Well, address those as we move forward.
::Corey
All right. So I hope you enjoyed today's episode with Dane Bennett. Getting to see Dane go from struggling with the unavoidable uncertainty and overwhelm that comes with entrepreneurship, to learning to actually accept and embrace it as a form of freedom, because uncertainty is agency in disguise. And the sooner we accept this, the sooner we can move forward with our businesses.
::Corey
If you want to work together publicly like I did with Dan today or privately, I'll put links to apply to both in the description below. Until next time, take it easy.
