#25 - Giving Yourself Permission to Be Great with Dan Bennett

Dan Bennett (: 00:00

we had lost everything. ⁓ I had like a duplex. was renting out both tenants quit paying rent because you couldn't kick anyone out.

lost my business, my partner, she's a chef and she had two seasonal gigs and they both shut down because they weren't essential. And we had a conference coming up that had already sold some tickets and we refunded the tickets and shut that down. was just like a complete zero. And I came from nothing. So I was like, well, you know, I've been back to nothing a couple of times. So I'm not scared of like zero, but I am kind of frustrated that it keeps seeming to happen in one way or another. And this time it was completely out of our control. And that's a little extra frustrating.

And it kind of built up and there was a night kids are in bed. We're sitting on the couch. I look over at her and she's an incredible chef and ⁓ executioner in that space. It's crazy. So I'm looking over at her. I know my own history and past and I said without really thinking we are both way too fucking talented to be this broke. And what was kind of coming out of me was like we both should already be to a point to even with a recession or even with

pandemic, we should have something to fall back on, even if it only lasts us six months or 12 months, whatever. But we have nothing to fall back on except our talents. And I'm so sick of being that person, you know. So it's kind of the genesis of

Corey Wilks, Psy.D. (: 01:19

big thing that not enough people talk about what, cause you know, I know you, I know a couple other people who do this general type of work of like helping people not only develop like camera confidence, but actually like, like tactically, like what is the setup that works for you? But I rarely hear people talk about tech debt specifically when it comes to like, like DIY shit, right? So like I'll use myself as an example.

years ago when I first like came into the creator scene, there's a girl, I'm going to start doing videos. I'm going to do like workshops. Also the shit I need to figure this out. And I just sort of Frankensteined it together, ⁓ myself with, you know, a bunch of YouTube tutorials that weren't a streamlined curriculum. It was just like kind of piecemeal. and, ⁓ Sean Cannell, right? Like Sean's got a, he's got a great, you know, just a plethora of really, really solid resources and reviews and shit.

⁓ and you know, one of his, his big things is like, you've got, you've got to just press record. Like that's like his opener for a lot of things. and it's, great. And again, she's got a lot of really great information. So I, I largely, ⁓ followed a lot of his stuff. This year I ran into was I didn't know the fuck I was doing. And I was just like piecemealing it together. So like, you know, I got lights, but then I realized that the, the lights I got, ⁓ weren't dimmable, weren't controllable. It was just like,

one fucking setting and like the light bulbs like this big and shit. And then like a year later, I found it like, I can just, was talking to like another like, you know, videographer friend. He was like, dude, just get like the Phillips bulbs and you just screw them in. They have the white ones. They have the colored ones. And then you, there's an app on your phone. You can like, you can control that. was like, nobody told me that. But then like, I got this, ⁓ I got like this like shotgun microphone here, right? The whatever Rope Pro Plus or whatever.

Dan Bennett (: 03:08

Yeah.

Corey Wilks, Psy.D. (: 03:17

But then I realized that that doesn't actually connect to the road caster. So like, I'm like, motherfucker, like now I got to get another microphone because I even bought, I don't even know what fucking is. I bought this little fucking dongle thing for the road, the road, the road pro plus that's supposed to like get it to like the, the XLR. But when you try to connect that to the road cast yourself, same fucking company.

Dan Bennett (: 03:33

Yeah.

Corey Wilks, Psy.D. (: 03:46

It introduces so much like feedback or it sounded like shit. I'm like, so now I'm sitting here trying to do YouTube videos, but I can't use my regular microphone that goes into my roadcaster cause I can't really connect that to my camera. So now when I do solo videos, I've got to use my, you know, my fucking, uh, shotgun is this considered shotgun microphone boom mic. Okay. Whatever, whatever like this one is I have to use that one.

Dan Bennett (: 04:09

Yeah, yeah, especially the way you got it mounted.

Corey Wilks, Psy.D. (: 04:14

connected directly into my camera for solo videos, but anything else on any like live call, I'm using a different microphone and a different set. Like, and it's just, it's like that tech debt. And then it's like, you know, you, you buy, you know, I bought the, the Canon, ⁓ 50 and it's like, okay, that's cool, but it's got a 30 minute record time. So now you have to get like a, like a, like a false battery pack. So it doesn't turn off.

And then it's dude, like tech debt is such a thing. Cause then it's just like, okay, now I've got this whole setup, but it's also hard for me to just switch out one thing because that would completely redo everything. So I might as well just wait until I just completely build it, like rebuild it from scratch. And it's like, not even, not, not even including like the camera settings, right? Learning about like exposure and like audio levels and how like you can't put the audio level.

Dan Bennett (: 04:56

Yeah, it's so real. I'm nodding and smiling like...

Corey Wilks, Psy.D. (: 05:08

internally in your camera to zero, it's got to be at one so that it actually like registers with your external microphone. Like all this shit is like as soon as you make the step from like again, a quarter step away from just your phone, hire somebody.

Dan Bennett (: 05:23

Yeah. Yeah.

Right. No, I feel I'm obviously biased, but also yes, hire someone. ⁓ Man, I'm nodding because I'm like, I've felt all of this pain through not only the beginning of my journey years ago, but also through helping hundreds of people through it, because I'm a relatively empathetic person. And I'm like, ⁓ I know we're going to get there though. ⁓ There's generally two, like favorite responses when we do three hour studio with people.

which is rebranding in June, so Hot Sauce Studio, were like either they're like, whew, that was a lot easier than I thought because I hid everything away from them except what I absolutely needed them to do and understand. And then the second is like, bro, I've been doing this for six months and we just got done in three one-hour sessions. Like I don't understand, you know, and it's like, I've been doing this a hundred years. know.

All the things that you had to feel the pain of learning are the things that I'm trying to like wrap and bake in and feed the people so they don't feel all of that pain. There's always some. ⁓ But yeah, everything I've literally personally experienced everything you've just said and I'm feeling it as you say it like, I know, right? Like, and then a lot of times it sometimes it happens with equipment, but just in general, even ⁓ people feel a loss.

You know, like, I went all the way down this rabbit hole and it wasn't even what I needed or I got this equipment. It sits in the closet. I do nothing with it. And every once in while I get a client that I'm like, the first thing you do with me is you give me a tour of your studio with your smartphone. Super easy. You tell me everything you love, everything you hate, what can move and what has to stay. And then the second thing is you give me measurements. And then the third thing is you give me a list of everything you own. don't care if you use it or not. And it can be.

Lamps, can be artwork that you love all the way down to obviously equipment and the specs on your computer to make sure I don't suggest anything your computer can't handle. And oftentimes I get that list and I'm like, you're sitting on some stuff here. Like you don't gotta buy that. We can make this work and you didn't know that and all that kind of stuff. It's really fun. So I get some of that like ⁓ buyer's remorse back for them because they're like, I'm putting to use that thing about two years ago that some YouTuber told me to buy. Yeah, I love it though because

Entrepreneurs, professionals, creators, like they're incredible people and they're problem solvers already. So I can't always eliminate all the pain, but I can kind of reduce friction between A, B and C and then watch them go, okay. Yeah, I got this now from here on out. Like I can sit down, I can hit record, I can go to a call and I don't have to be a videographer. can, I can just beat me. ⁓ that's generally what we're after. So it's real though, man. Like, like I said,

There's so much emotion and psychology in, you know, what we're doing that when I saw your stuff, I was like, man, I would love to just chat some time because I talk about it a lot. got a psychology of camera confidence course, just a little mini thing to try and like help people wrap their brains around stuff. ⁓ I, even on the other side, if those are some of the negative things, once I booked this, I've had such a positive

like energizing feeling towards this talk since we booked, where I keep seeing it on the camera, like, I cannot wait. Like that's recess. That's I get to go outside and play with my friends, you know, like can't wait. Cause I'm at the end of a rebrand and it's just been 12, 15 hour days for a few weeks now. And it's like, this is like a breath of fresh air. Like I'm just going to go play and talk about things I like and it's not work. So it's, yeah, it's always on my mind though, what people are feeling and going through.

Corey Wilks, Psy.D. (: 09:12

So like for me, right? So this podcast is all about, you know, sort of psychological insights to transform your business, your life and yourself. Right? So what the fuck does that mean? I think a big piece for, so for me, I use the term creator and I don't just mean like a content creator because a lot of people think when they hear creator, they think influencer, right? And

I consistently hear from entrepreneurs. They're like, look, I'm not a creator because I'm not an influencer. I don't want to just be this Instagram celebrity that makes, you know, or some tick tock celebrity, right? I'm a quote unquote real entrepreneur. And I've heard other people try to coin terms like content driven entrepreneur, content, prenoir like edu prenoir also the shit. But for me fundamentally, if you create something, you are a creator.

Right? So creator for me, that includes founders, solopreneurs, entrepreneurs of various facets, right? YouTubers, podcasters, coaches, consultants, marketers, whatever. Right? That to me is just creator is, the most appropriate term I can think of, um, for people who create things. Right. And a lot of what I do on this show is really exploring the intersection of sort of personal development slash psychology.

entrepreneurship in general and creativity. And that's why I really want to have you on because one, I really vibe with your personality, right? Like you, I don't know if you still do, but at one point kind of went by like, you know, antipreneur kind of shit, right? ⁓ and just really kind of being counter to like all the bro shit, all the bullshit. ⁓ you are a very no bullshit kind of guy. And anytime we've ever talked, I've always loved just, just how you kind of like the presence you have and, and you're, you're very,

you know, genuine, no bullshit approach to things. So I definitely want to have you on to talk about things because in your own business and things you've, you've gone through a few evolutions to the point you're at now you talked about. we're recording this, you know, in May, we'll see when it comes out, but you're saying by the time June rolls around, you'll be finished with the rebrand and things. I'm assuming still generally doing the same type of work.

but just putting a different veneer on it to make it more obvious what makes it so awesome, right?

Dan Bennett (: 11:37

Yeah, yeah,

the little internal tagline that I'm putting on all my stuff to kind of keep myself going is like the brand is changing, the mission didn't. Like make it clear to everyone who comes across anything I write or put out as we do this that now we're just dialing in that laser year after year. So yeah.

Corey Wilks, Psy.D. (: 11:58

And I think that is a key piece with entrepreneurship that either people don't understand is a key component or they minimize its importance, right? Of like, especially for people who were either aspiring entrepreneurs or newer in their entrepreneurial journey, all you see is the current iteration of everybody else's business.

Right? All you see is like, this person, they're making seven, eight figures a year. They've got this huge audience. They're, pulling all, you know, they're doing all these numbers, whatever. I'm not. And it's like, you know, you aren't at the same level they're at, but also the level they're at, they've probably gone through six, eight, dozen iterations. And that holds true not only for individual creators, entrepreneurs, virtually any company, any business ever.

what it currently is is nowhere near what it started as. But I think for a lot of us, like you said, like the mission doesn't change. I think that's a really key piece of like, that's how you know, the business you're in is the business worth doing because even though, know, your fonts, your hex codes, your, your, your logo, like also shit can change. And even maybe how you, your strategies of like what you, what

products and services you offer, whatever the type of content you actually create, cause we're going to talk about, know, video stuff that may change to a degree. But like you said, all of that is in service of dialing in to better align with your mission. Right? So what is, what is your mission as it stands today?

Dan Bennett (: 13:38

Yeah, yeah, so true.

ig shift in my career back in: 2017

not a lot of opportunity, not a lot of growth in the state in general. And I would look around my dedicated office building that I rented in and like, no one could afford me. And it was like, man, like working for Harley was cool, but making, you know, helping them make another quarter million dollars on this campaign doesn't help me sleep. If I could just get 25,000 in someone's pocket locally here, that would change everything for them. Like, how do I start kind of going, you know, in that direction?

And that was the genesis. There's more to that story, that was the genesis of like, all right, let's help people, those who kind of film themselves. ⁓

I, it's cliche, but like level the playing field. Like let's get them looking and sounding great. Let's give them an opportunity to be able to sit down at a hybrid station where they can work. They can go to calls, they can record all in one spot and they can start to get those reps in and feel comfortable. And, our, our tagline is like helping remarkable people look and sound great on camera. Like that changed from entrepreneurs and professionals and stuff, because I just want people who create, like you were saying earlier with the word creator to be able to do a much better job at it.

And so the mission remains, you know, helping remarkable people look and something on camera and the fun little kind of a side that I've watched happen over the last five, six years since, just before the pandemic and going through that and everything, as you've watched corporate do everything they can, you've watched all the large companies do everything they can to try to appear more human over time, user generated content, ⁓ you know, ⁓ celebrities, influencers, all this stuff and

One thing I can look at every one of our clients and say is like, well, we got to beat there because we're already just human. We don't have to put on a show. We can just show up. ⁓ so yeah, that's, that's the mission, man. It's just helping people like that do it faster, smoother, and with a little, little comfort along the way, instead of the DIY that you're so familiar with yourself.

Corey Wilks, Psy.D. (: 16:12

So like, think so part of my mission, right, is, to help people put themselves and their ideas out into the world. All right. So I'm a big fan of the stoic concept of momentum or right. So like I've, know, my, my older like right tattoo sleeve is dedicated to it. momentum or remember death, remember you will die not in like a depressing way so much as like using mortality as a motivator to live full. So like, how can you make the most of the time you have?

Not in like a productivity bro, like you got to optimize fucking everything kind of thing. So much as what is the work worth doing? What is the work only you can do? How can you do more of that? How can you align your day to day with furthering that mission for you personally? ⁓ and I think a lot of people have incredible value ideas, insights, stories, and experiences.

that would fundamentally make the world a better place or at least their corner of the world, a better place, but so much shit gets in their way. So one of the things that, you know, we talked before recording, you said a lot of the work that you all do is focused on the basic psychology of people's relationship with creativity. Can you tell me more about that?

Dan Bennett (: 17:36

Yeah, the word fear comes up a lot, even if it's not used by the client. And I can trace this all the way back to the beginning of my video career. Got lucky pretty early on, got some decent sized contracts with some universities and then some fortune 500 companies. And I come up like, you know, poor family abuse, my mom's a badass who got me and my brother out, you know, and like everything's always just been kind of like, what's in the dirt.

You know, just dig and ⁓ and that's that, that set me up in a way where when I started running into fear from other people, especially at these like high performing, high achieving type positions, I was internally like, what the hell's wrong with you? You have resources, you have a budget, you have knowledge, you have a career behind you and you're this afraid. And I started having to come to terms with it myself of man, everyone's version of like stress, anxiety.

fear is different and maybe their 90 % capacity is my 10 % in that particular field. like, I can't continue to be judgmental. I have to find out how to work with them and bring this to the surface. And I saw, you know, again, fortune 500 CEOs crumble and melt in front of the camera. And I'm like, bro, like you're the expert. If I can't talk to you, like, what are we going to do? And we had one in particular where we had to schedule for the next day, which cost us a bunch. So we had to

Another day in the hotel, keep the crew on, couldn't drive home the day we thought we were going to drive home, all this stuff. Came back the next day and before the guy showed up, I had my audio guy, like just, just roll everything. So he would monitor the camera, keep audio on his ears and I would just interview. I'm like, roll it all, roll it all. And he's like, what? And I'm like, just trust me, you know, so everything's rolling before the CEO gets in. He comes and sits down. I was like yesterday, ⁓ you mentioned, ⁓ Beagle Dogs.

And I didn't get a chance to tell you, my grandpa always kept BeagleDocs and he trained them like crazy, man. They could just do all this incredible stuff. And we started drawing about that and kind of where we grew up and different things. And I slowly turned the conversation to what I needed to get out of him. And about 45 minutes later, total, I was like, think we got everything we need. And he's like, what? And I'm like, yeah, we're done. Go ahead and kill everything. He's like, you were recording. And I'm like, the whole time, you know. And that was the beginning of like, OK, my job.

isn't to make great looking video, even though that's part of it, it's to try to help people feel comfortable as they come up against this fear type thing. Then I start realizing like fear keeps us alive, right? So like these words that exist in my work don't always have to be bad. Fear can be good. Fear is the bush shaking. You're like, I've seen the saber tooth tiger before. I'm not going over there. So we can use it to our advantage and we can call it out and we can come to terms with it. And I think that's kind of, you know,

It's a little bit heady for video content, but it really is the terms that I think in when I'm working with people because as they start to come to grips with these things, they get better on camera. And it's so cool to see people come into their own. I have a big slide that I use, excuse me, at the end of any kind of workshop I do that breaks down into four pieces what it is that we do. And it's like 5%, 5%, 5%, and then a big 85 % chunk.

So 5 % is technology, it's the equipment, it's the software. 5 % is strategy, which is a big part of the work we do, but a very small part of the output of that whole kind of effort that our clients have to give. 5 % is distribution, where's the video gonna live, what's it gonna do, where are we playing by the rules of that platform, yada yada. And then 85%, and I make it as big as I can on the slide, is getting entrepreneurs and professionals to give themselves permission to be great on camera.

because they're already great in real life. We've just introduced a camera. And that really is, I think, the work that goes into just coming up against fear, which I still feel myself on daily basis.

Corey Wilks, Psy.D. (: 21:39

love that you bring those things up. Cause like those same things come up in a lot of the work that I do, whether it's coaching or the trainings I do, the community, have all that of like one, most people are waiting for permission to do the thing. Either they're waiting for outright permission or they're just, they're looking for like validation. Like, ⁓ this is, this is good enough. You can do this. You're allowed to do this. And it's like, can wait your entire life for permission. Cause nobody's going to give you permission to it. Right. And

You know, there's a ton of reasons like why we've kind of become conditioned to wait for permission, but so much of, you know, like the work that I do, ⁓ eventually turns into, cause you know, I'll work with, you know, very successful entrepreneurs, creators, founders, whatever, again, whatever term you want to put to it. and they'll be like, you know, I really want to do this. All that makes sense. And like, that's literally all I say. They're like, my God, really? Like,

Okay, cool. Like you see it too. Like I'm not insane. Like this actually like, okay, I can do this. It's like, motherfucker, you're the boss. You, if you want to do it, you can who the fuck's permission are you waiting for? Right? And it's just like, we don't trust ourselves nearly as much as we need to, to do the things we deeply know we need. We want to be doing. We should quote unquote should be doing. Right. ⁓ and another big piece of that is fear. So like what I've seen, I call them the four horsemen of fear.

Dan Bennett (: 22:45

Yeah.

Corey Wilks, Psy.D. (: 23:08

⁓ the, the most common limiting beliefs I tend to see across all the entire spectrum of, of, business or any sort of creative endeavor, ⁓ typically fall into one of these four categories, which are fear of failure, right? What if I'm not good enough? What if I'm not smart enough? What if this fails? What if nobody buys my thing? Well, if nobody watches the video fear of ridicule, how will they respond? Whoever they is, right? How are my friends and family react? How will my peers, my customers, what will they think?

fear of uncertainty. And this is where a lot of it comes into like analysis paralysis of like endless YouTube rabbit holes of like, okay, what camera should I get? What microphone? What this, what that? Like, how do I do, you know, my backdrop, whatever. Cause you're so afraid of making the wrong decision. You end up making no decision. Cause you feel like you have to wait until you feel ready before you move forward. Cause you're, there's so much uncertainty, right? And the fourth one, which fucks up so many people that doesn't make sense at first is fear of success.

And the reason that is, for most of us, success represents crossing a threshold, like achieving major success, however you define it is crossing a threshold. Well, if you've never achieved major success, however you define it, you've never crossed that threshold. So that version of you is, is, is alien is foreign is something you do not recognize. And we reflexively recoil from things we don't understand. Right? So it's like, so it's like, if you, you,

have a habit of like self sabotaging or like, you know, you, you make incredible progress, but then like right once you get to like the finish line, something always seems to happen. That could be a fear of success. And it's like the one guy I worked with, he's like, look, man, I've been the underdog my entire life. If I succeed, I'm not the underdog anymore. I'm afraid I'm going to lose my superpower, my competitive advantage. If I succeed, I've had, I've heard other people say,

If I succeed, I could become like niche famous in my industry. And I'm just a guy. I don't think I can handle that level of influence in my industry. I'm not ready for that. Other people say fundamentally, I don't think I I'm worthy of success. I deserve success. So like those are the fears. Like I consistently see people, people like whether you're like brand new into business or like legitimately do like seven, eight plus figure.

founders and shit, serial founders, VC back bootstrap, like everything in between. They also struggle with it to some degree.

Dan Bennett (: 25:41

Yeah, dude. ⁓ Clip that, send it to me. I'm going to put it on repeat.

Corey Wilks, Psy.D. (: 25:46

I'm literally

writing a book on this right now. So like you're good. I'll I'll send you a copy once this out

Dan Bennett (: 25:49

Yeah,

I love it because you can tell when people know their stuff. I've been on podcasts where off record at the end they're like, you had a storied answer for everything that I asked. And I'm like, those are stories. And I use the same ones all the time because they help people understand where I'm coming from, what I'm trying to do.

I love deeper thought than normal. doesn't have to be super heady or I don't have to go way into stuff, but I just love that next layer of like, I know what the four horsemen are. So I can totally relate to this analogy. And now I'm looking at a quadrant and now I'm like, I am so in the fourth one. And I've been very open about it with people because I want entrepreneurial feedback. And essentially we've had growth. We, you know, launched something in 23 that did well 24, it kind of exploded 25, but really trying to.

leverage that momentum if momentum exists, I don't know. And part of that has been hiring team, giving up control, which has never been a big deal for me. It's never been about my style or anything that's about how do I get there where people actually buy into the vision and want to help me build this company. And I've transitioned. ⁓ Well, I'm in the middle of transitioning to someone who leads people, not someone who finishes projects. And it is wild.

It is wild. I don't think enough people talk about it. I think just the two or three examples you just gave in that short amount of time were so helpful for me. I'm going to go back and chew on them more because I have little elements of several of the things you said. It's like, I know I can do this by myself forever. I can create my own job forever. But if I start leading people, I can still maintain great projects, deliverables and all that. But now I have to make sure that I'm fulfilling my promise over here too, which is I promised you.

I would create a place that's safe, a place that there is autonomy, but enough guard rails to make you feel like I got your back. And I also now have put this new potato sack on my shoulders, at least mentally of, I don't want to let you down or not keep my promise to you because I've put you in a position as my employee that I'm going to do what I said when we were interviewing, you know, and there is in my life this year, the first time I've

ever really understood fear of success. Cause when I hear it, it irritates me. I'm like, get out of the way and give me your success. Then I'll step into it. Like, bro, I've been doing this forever. I want that success. And now, now through growth, I'm like, maybe this is what they meant. Maybe this is the part where, you know, psychologically it's like, Oh, it doesn't mean cowering in a corner. I don't want to be successful. It's all these intricate details within success where you're like, you know, you, you've been just

Moving through a map that you're so familiar with and then you come to a clearing or a forest or a river and you're outside of your known You know space and you're like, Is there a guide around can anyone tell me how to get not die in this part of the woods because I've never been here Yeah, I mean this stuff's so good

Corey Wilks, Psy.D. (: 28:55

So like, ⁓ so with success, ⁓ so you mentioned kind of growing up poor and going through like, you know, violence and shit. So I grew up in, ⁓ rural Appalachia. grew up in West Virginia. and I grew up like super poor, like food stamps, public housing. We had HUD and shit. ⁓ we would occasionally get like church donations for like Thanksgiving dinner. Like I remember that vividly the one year I was like, ⁓ we're fucking poor. Like we just, we got,

food donations, like we're that fucking poor. like, you know, growing up in the U S and shit, like, you know, I always, I never had to pay for lunch because I always, I was always on like the free meal plan and shit. Cause like we were that fucking poor and like, cause you know, my family, like, ⁓ basically, ⁓ my parents early on worked, but both, for very different reasons became like physically disabled, either through work or like some other, you know, stuff that went on. So like,

from like elementary on, neither of my parents worked. So like I was never a latchkey kid. My parents were and they're divorced. So like it was a different households, but like they were always home. Like I always knew mom, mom and dad would be home. Right? So like the first time I heard about a latchkey kid, I'm like, that's fucking weird. Like my parents are always home, but like, ⁓ I also, ⁓ not growing up at a certain point, my mom had a boyfriend who was an abusive drunk.

So like, remember vividly one time when my baby brother, he was still in a crib. ⁓ I woke up to this guy throwing my mom down, like the single step in our one story house and putting a rocking chair on her throat and sitting on it to like strangle her and like try to like crush like her throat and shit. And this is like two, three in the morning. So like I'm woken up by this violence and shit.

And I like run into the kitchen where my brother's crib was. And I just like, I'm trying to like protect him. And I'm like in my head and I'm like eight, maybe, maybe seven, like I think eight ish cause I was able to, was born. ⁓ and I'm like, I know I can't actually protect anybody in this household cause I'm, I'm a fucking eight year old and like, and, and you know, that went on for a couple of years, but like, dude, like the level of like hatred and anger I had all through growing up, like every single night for up until like,

mid high school, if not almost into college, like, like every single night I would go to bed fantasizing about killing him, beating the shit out of him, something. Cause it was like, I'm bigger now motherfucker. Like you seem big when I was little, but now I'm bigger than you. Let me fucking catch you outside. And then I eventually, I came across, like I, I really gravitate to like Stoicism and Buddhism ship. And I remember at one point hearing this like Buddhist Cohen or some sort of fucking thing. And it was like,

Dan Bennett (: 31:28

Hmm.

Corey Wilks, Psy.D. (: 31:46

holding onto anger is like holding onto a hot coal with the intention of throwing it at somebody else. And it's like, no matter how much damage that could do to that person, you call so much more damage to yourself, holding onto this anger and resentment. was like, fuck man, like I've got to learn forgiveness, not because he deserves forgiveness, but because I deserve peace. So like I went through like that whole like personal development journey that was, know, and then I eventually later, you know, went into psychology and shit, but beyond that,

Dan Bennett (: 32:06

Hmm.

Corey Wilks, Psy.D. (: 32:16

I always identified as a poor kid and like, I've written a piece about this, but, ⁓ like growing up, I thought I was a juvenile delinquent. my fiance who's, who's getting her, her PhD in criminal justice. She was like, you, you weren't a delinquent. You were straight up committing felonies because juvenile delinquency is just, it's, it would be legal if you were an adult. She was like, you were committing arson and breaking and entering.

and shit. Those are, I was like, that was just fun for me. I didn't think anything about it. So like, they're like legit, like all my childhood friends either are currently in prison or been in and out. But that was normal for me. It was normal for me to go to a friend's house and see burnt spoons on the table. Cause his dad had just shot up. It was normal for me to break into the local amusement park by cutting a hole in the fence, like all the, and catching shit on fire. That was normal. Right.

And I always had that identity of the poor kid because when you're a poor kid, lower middle class people look rich and you know, went to college and I was all, I was still the poor kid in college. Like all, like most of my peers, my colleagues and things, they came from middle class or upper middle class backgrounds. I ended up specializing in addiction treatment as a psychologist because those were the people that I understood the best.

I understood people who, who you were addicted to shit and angry teenagers who were super oppositional. Cause I'm like, I know those people. Right. But then when I started to get into entrepreneurship, I still carried around that identity of a poor kid. And I'm just like, it developed into this like fear of success of like who, if I'm not the poor kid, who am I? If I succeed, I'm not the poor kid. If I get rich, I'm not the poor kid.

That's the only identity I've ever known. And that's the only identity that like has fueled me. Cause I always felt othered. I othered myself in situations, but it's like, but I'm trying to get wealthy. I'm trying to like, if I, if, know, if we start a family, my kids are going to grow up wealthier. So, but I hated the wealthy kids in high school. So am I, am I trying to have kids that I would have hated? Like, and dude, it's, it's such a mind fuck.

Cause it's like, you can't get wealthy if you hate wealth. it's like you straight up fuck. Like it's, it's not a thing. Right? So it's like, if you have fear of success because it's identity based, it's like, who am I? If I succeed until you answer that question, you will hold yourself back.

Dan Bennett (: 34:41

Yeah, that's good. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, that is so real. I have a recent demonstration of this, which is it's very small and it was so impactful to me. born and raised to Flint, Michigan, moved about three and a half years ago to North Fort Worth, lived in one place my whole life, different houses, but one city, and then moved down

2020, there's a ton of stories in there, but at one point in time, we had lost everything. ⁓ I had like a duplex. was renting out both tenants quit paying rent because you couldn't kick anyone out.

lost my business, my partner, she's a chef and she had two seasonal gigs and they both shut down because they weren't essential. And we had a conference coming up that had already sold some tickets and we refunded the tickets and shut that down. was just like a complete zero. And I came from nothing. So I was like, well, you know, I've been back to nothing a couple of times. So I'm not scared of like zero, but I am kind of frustrated that it keeps seeming to happen in one way or another. And this time it was completely out of our control. And that's a little extra frustrating.

And it kind of built up and there was a night kids are in bed. We're sitting on the couch. I look over at her and she's an incredible chef and ⁓ executioner in that space. It's crazy. So I'm looking over at her. I know my own history and past and I said without really thinking we are both way too fucking talented to be this broke. And what was kind of coming out of me was like we both should already be to a point to even with a recession or even with

pandemic, we should have something to fall back on, even if it only lasts us six months or 12 months, whatever. But we have nothing to fall back on except our talents. And I'm so sick of being that person, you know. So it's kind of the genesis of

moving. And so we get down here and we start thriving. And her career is taken off. And she's now working, you know, with a large ⁓ restaurant group that's headed by a very well established and been around a long time celebrity chef and just all this stuff, you know, and

I don't even have Texas clients, but just being in the vicinity of all of these great entrepreneurs and networking and stuff, my business has grown since I've been here as well. And there's moments where it's like, it's weird, right? So when this all kind of came to fruition a little bit, I was telling just at a local meeting, networking meeting, a couple of people about how, you know, what's funny is I always take the toll. I don't leave my studio a lot. So when I do, I like to get places as quick as I can, whatever, and I always take the toll and it's everywhere in Texas. So you just jump on.

They take a picture of your license plate and you get a bill. Like, and I didn't find out until like a year of being here that that's considered by a lot of people as like bougie. It's like you go to, you know, Starbucks and then you jump on the toll. I was looking at it as like $2 and 50 cents and I don't have to wait in that line for 15 minutes frustrated by other drivers. Like take my money. And it really rung, you know, true to me that like, man, they fear.

paying that and being perceived as bougie, similar to how I fear growing this business and being perceived in new ways as well. Even if that perception is just my own perception of myself, am I the same guy? Am I still gritty? Do I still come from something that is, you know, a ⁓ story of rising from the ashes? If eventually we're pretty comfortable and we're doing decently well and...

I haven't thought about changing a tire, filling a gas tank or what groceries cost in like three or four years. This is wild. Yeah, it's, it's brand new territory. And I think we need to have conversations like this on a more ongoing basis. Cause I know a lot of, you know, I was part of the online community for a while called first gen. was all first generation entrepreneurs, no business school, nobody else in their family to help them. And I didn't even realize until I met the guy that runs a community that I was that I'm like, holy crap.

I never figured this out. My mom was the only of all her siblings, dirt poor, all the stuff to go to college and get a career. And I'm the only one ever in the bloodline to start a business and grow it. Like, whoa, I didn't realize this happened or that it had that kind of significance. So yeah, I'm glad you brought it up because people need to hear these things and maybe every once in a while, just get a little weighted blanket feel out of the fact that we're all kind of dealing with it in some form or another.

Corey Wilks, Psy.D. (: 39:15

Well, I think it all kind of connects right of like when we talk about, you know, camera confidence and having a setup that makes you feel comfortable of like, I can hit record because everything after, after this, like everything's taken care of, like lighting's good, sounds good. I don't have to like overthink any of this. I just have to be on for this. Right. Another layer though is like so much of that is psychological, right? Like, like you said, like 85%, like the, the, the 15

That's the tactical, like, you know, crunchy bits that are, that's more of like a checklist of like, is all this shit taken care of? Okay, good. But do so much of it is psychological of like, not only your own, insecurities or imposter syndrome, but also like, is this the work you need to be doing? Is this the work you feel compelled to do? What is the impact you're trying to have? What are the implications of you actually having the impact you, do want to have? Right. And it's just like,

Dan Bennett (: 40:10

See

Corey Wilks, Psy.D. (: 40:13

that can be debilitating for people. But also like as you're working with your clients on, some of these things, you're also experiencing them yourself because you're also the entrepreneur. You're also the poor kid who came up first generation. And then it's just so like for yourself and your own like internal journey and like sort of ups and downs, lessons learned struggles, right? Let's start there. Like what has that looked like for you? And like, what have you kind of,

come out of that with like wisdom.

Dan Bennett (: 40:47

Yeah, one of the big ones ⁓ is representative of many other things on different topics, but they all kind of hit me in similar ways, was discovered. So like I said, we lost everything. ⁓ Jax took a credit card she probably shouldn't have and rented me. There's like a place, it might still be around called Outdoorsy. was like Airbnb, but for camper trailers and pop-up trailers and RVs. So you could get someone else's gear. And she rented me a pop-up trailer and was like,

go to go. And I didn't even know where I was going, right? So it's a great story. I ended up at a campground that was unopened, that was on land that a friend of mine had bought and was going to eventually make back into a campground, but there was nothing there. And he's like, one spot has power and one pump has water. You're free to go. And so I took this pop-up trailer into the Northern lower peninsula in Michigan and just went out into the forest and spent about a week and a half with a whiteboard, a single book.

Couple of documentaries on an iPad and just no agenda just I wanted to go find find what was next find myself whatever and I would just like write on a whiteboard till it was full take a picture of it and erase it right and I didn't even know what I was after I was just trying to learn and I was having all these like micro epiphanies and one of them the hit that I alluded to earlier was like I would see people because I came up so hard and they would be complaining about this shit and I'd be like I mean bro like

I'm not here to one up you and I never will, like I could tell you some stories like, man, that's really what's holding you back. And then I cried and I'm like, why am I crying? Like I'm an emotional person and I will allow that to happen. But I didn't know why it was happening. I was just, my eyes were welling up and I'm like, what am I feeling right now? So I just kind of sat with it and this little camper at the stupid little table that becomes a bed, you know, like I'm just sitting there in the middle of the woods. Like, what is this? And then my brain.

took over, thank God, the part that's doing the work for me and I don't gotta think about it. And it was like, bro, that 90%, that debilitating thing they're going through could be your 5 % and you're looking at it like, ain't no big deal, just push through. And that is the wrong thing to say to someone who's feeling 90 % overwhelmed. And that little lens struck me so hard, not just because it was an epiphany, but because I am already a caring, empathetic, kind person.

at July, August, September of: 2020

that I still go back to and listen to. And it's almost like it's a different human. And I'm hearing their podcast talk about this stuff, you know. ⁓ So I got off topic a little bit there, but I don't know if that answered what you asked particularly or not, but that was one example of something that was super impactful.

Corey Wilks, Psy.D. (: 44:00

From your own journey, how have you navigated fear?

Dan Bennett (: 44:08

I've always been someone for better or worse. This has not always played in my favor, who will sit with things. Some of the bad side of that is being over analytical, overthinking, analysis paralysis, you know, some of those things we'd like to avoid more than we dive into. And I'll admit growing up gritty and, you know, in the hood and different things, you do adapt some of that kind of like, man, you can't tell me nothing. Like get out of here and all that kind of vibe.

And there is some, sometimes, some pride that comes with, man, you don't even know where I'm from. That's like a lot of times you see people fight and they're like, bro, and they're in a different state and they're like, I'm from Detroit, you know? And it's like, okay, does that make you an MMA fighter or just really adaptable to the cold? know what I mean? But ⁓ so you carry some of that and it's like, you know, I come from a place that's kind of tough and I think that makes me resilient. And there's a little bit of a badge of honor there.

⁓ so in the beginning, especially going into entrepreneurship, it was like, I'm not afraid of this. Like I'll sit with this or whatever. And then I started to, and this came out through my music. used to be in a band and touring stuff. And I wrote a little bit about this metaphorically. And some of my songs, like I, always viewed it as like, playing poker, like an old gritty Western or something like we're dealing cards, a couple of guys sitting around then in comes the grim reaper. It's like, ⁓ yeah, bring your money over here. Let's, let's do this. So I always viewed it as like.

playing poker with fear. I'm gonna sit down, I'm gonna get to know you. Maybe you're not that bad of a guy, I don't know, you And through that kind of like, I'm tough, I can handle this, I'm gonna sit with it, I started to veer away from just running away from things or making excuses. Now I still do both of those things, I just am doing them less and I'm aware when I'm doing them. So at least when I'm making a bad decision, I'm like, this is probably not a great decision, you know what mean? ⁓

So I think that's kind of been how I approach it for the most part is not being afraid of it. And then the next thing is to like, it exists, it exists. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, it exists. So what's next? What questions do I ask? Where do I go next? And this personified itself in an image that I put out every like six weeks or so, every time I run across it in my folder. And essentially what it is, is it's a guy in a suit with a briefcase running.

and he's running away from something and he's looking back behind him up at this wall and there's a big shadow on the wall of this scary demon monster. And then, ⁓ I did all this in Photoshop, like I bring the shadow down to a point and on the ground behind him, where he's not looking, is a tiny cute little monster guy. And the light just makes it look huge as a shadow and the shadow is what he's running away from. And the whole point there is,

I'm not saying fear doesn't exist. I'm not saying the problem that scares you doesn't exist. I'm just inviting you to sit with it and maybe find out that it's a monster, but it's not going to eat you. I mean, it could bite you and you can get an infection and die if you don't keep me or whatever, but it's not going to just devour you in one bite. And maybe in working together, we might be able to put that in a cage and feed it and keep it safe, but like over there. And occasionally they'll get out and poop on your floor or like a dog would.

but I think this is a way that we can potentially process through this. ⁓ So yeah, that's when I think of fear, I think very much metaphorically and almost in reality where I'm like, get in here, let's talk, because if you're here, might as well figure out what's going on. For better or worse, I invited in the door.

Corey Wilks, Psy.D. (: 47:54

So then how does that show up in the work you do with clients?

Dan Bennett (: 48:00

I think part of it ties into what you said earlier, giving them permission. ⁓ I think like you mentioned earlier, I carried a moniker and still do for fun. And if I ever write a book someday, it's going to be called the anti-preneur. I always loved that people could read a thing and know right away, like, are you anti entrepreneurship or like anti, the way it is? And I could go right into, yeah, I don't like the status quo snake oil guru. There's your way. Let's develop what that is, you know? ⁓

So yeah, think those things kind of come into play when I think about processing through some of this stuff and how I approach it.

Corey Wilks, Psy.D. (: 48:41

One thing you said is that video is the ultimate mirror. What do you mean by that?

Dan Bennett (: 48:47

Yeah, this ties into fear too. I think the reason that entrepreneurs have such a hard time, again, creator, anything that falls under the category you mentioned earlier, I think one of the things that like comes into play a lot there is that they know how to problem solve. I can almost always say to an entrepreneur, even if I decide not to, you've done much harder things than we're about ready to do.

You've solved bigger problems. You've, you know, hired fired. You've gone through incredibly tough things. This won't be that tough. But at the end of the day, when the red light comes on, and then the upload button is clicked, I mean, you are naked, no matter how much you try and cover it up, even if all you do is give a tiny little opinion in a 10 second video, you're vulnerable and you're naked. And a lot of what we do in entrepreneurship or building a business or being creative is

presenting the product out in front of us and we can kind of stand behind it and hide a little bit and video just ends up not always behaving that way and when people create it they often feel like they're looking in a mirror and I think about this a lot right because I use a mirror every day but I rarely look at myself I you know comb the beard do I have anything on my face

brush my teeth, yep, looks like I gotta, you I'm out of here. I rarely stop and look at the human that's in the reflection. It's more of a tool for me. And the moments you do, if you've ever sat in front of a mirror and looked at your own eyeballs and just were calm and let it happen for 10 seconds, it gets a little weird sometimes. Like, man, that's me, but it's not me. it's like, what's in there? You know, and that's a human, whoa. And it's like, run out of the room and go have coffee, you know. But we all know that

of self-reflection, taking the time to go through, trying to become the next stage of yourself and putting in the work that goes with it and all that is very much like a mirror. It's like looking at your own reflection and dealing with it, sitting with it and moving on. So I think video is, know, whether it's will people like me, will they click at all? Who am I to share this information? Because I've only been doing this three years. All of those things are kind of just won't put right in front of your face just by thinking about hitting record and then hitting publish.

And I'll keep saying it all throughout any conversation I have with anyone. I still have days where I'm putting out a post that's like, I've helped hundreds of entrepreneurs look and sound good on camera. And then I'm like, but is that enough? Because I haven't helped thousands. I've helped hundreds. And it's like, what am I doing? put the thing out. It'll help someone move on. So yeah, The Mirror is ⁓ almost literal, I think, when it comes to video.

Corey Wilks, Psy.D. (: 51:44

So part of that kind of touches on imposter syndrome. ⁓ for me, imposter syndrome is, sort of a symptom of fear of ridicule. If I'm going to connect it to the four horsemen of fear, but fundamentally imposter syndrome is the belief that you don't belong in the room, whatever that room is, right? It can be a physical room, it'd be a virtual room, whatever, right? I don't belong in this room because the people already in that room, they do deserve to be there.

And they will immediately know that I don't belong as soon as I have the audacity to try to even enter it. Right. Um, you know, I remember when I was in grad school, we, uh, so, so, you know, grad school, so I'm a psychologist by training. So in grad school, I was learning to do therapy, right? I'm a clinical psychologist by training. Um, and at one point in grad school, we did this outreach event for, uh, the homeless community. Uh, and again, this is in rural Appalachia.

Dan Bennett (: 52:18

Yeah.

Corey Wilks, Psy.D. (: 52:41

in December, it's as cold as fuck, like freezing, sub freezing temperatures. And the way it worked was, ⁓ the schools of like psychology, nursing, medicine, like all these different schools came together and we provided services. So like they could get like medical checkups. They could get, you know, a quick prescription if they needed it, clothing, all this shit. I'm like, okay. So, you know, we come in and I'm like,

These motherfuckers are fighting for their lives. They do not need deep breathing techniques to deal with stress. They do not need smoking cessation techniques to help them quit smoking. Like straight up. If the cigarette helps you get through the day fucking smoke it. And I'm just so I went up to two of my supervisors who between them had like 50 years of experience. I was like, hey, when does this feeling like I don't know what the fuck I'm doing. Go away. And they looked at me. They're like, we'll let you know.

Dan Bennett (: 53:36

Hehehe.

Corey Wilks, Psy.D. (: 53:36

Meaning

even they were like, I feel like I don't belong here. Right. And like, clearly we did clearly we provided a lot of, of, help and value and things. ⁓ but that was the day I stopped having imposter syndrome, not because like I'm some like cocky fuck who like knows everything, which I'm sure I can come across like that. Sometimes I accept that about myself, but

It's, it's more so of like, nobody fully knows what the fuck they're doing. The only people who claim to fully know what the fuck they're doing are selling you snake oil. Period. I have, I worked with people who are like the celebrity in their niche. And we've talked about imposter syndrome and they're like, Oh yeah, I have imposter syndrome every day. I'm like, I told him, was like, motherfucker, you're the reason other people have imposter syndrome, right? It's like you give it to other people and they're like, I have it every single day. And

Dan Bennett (: 54:32

Yeah.

Corey Wilks, Psy.D. (: 54:33

just this idea of I don't belong in the room and this thought of who am I to do this? How do you again, both internally deal with that, but then when it comes up in client work, how do you help them navigate?

Dan Bennett (: 54:49

Yeah, man, it's different for everyone, of course, but I think like acceptance is a word that comes up a lot in that work. I'm going through some brand training right now and part of what they're hitting on is, sorry to inform you, but your brand is often out of your control. Your content's in your control, but your audience determines what your brand is, you know, and it's like, man, that hits so hard. So as I'm going through this training, I'm accepting that.

I'm like, that sounds like truth to me. My 16 years of experience says that feels true. My gut says that feels true. I'm going to accept this. And I think that's kind of part of it. I wish I could attribute this to someone, because I don't remember where I heard it, except that it was in a YouTube video. But I was watching a YouTube video about a month ago, and someone was like, you know, ⁓ people talk about imposter syndrome, and they're like, no, no, no, you're just on your journey. You belong here, whatever. And.

generally what I end up telling them is if you feel like you have imposter syndrome is because you do, because you're a fucking imposter, which is essentially in a more poetic way, what you just said through your superior saying, we'll let you know. I mean, we are. And I accept that. I accept it because I can look at any micro component of what I do in video and relate it to film and then relate that to a director and relate that to three Oscars or three, you know, whatever awards and be like,

I will never ever achieve that, you know, so I'm an imposter because I make videos not films. I could take any component of what I do or help other people do and just say I do I do not belong here. So I think acceptance is a big part of it. And oftentimes through that acceptance, giving yourself permission to be great on camera, you end up finding your own voice, your own style, your own niche. And then people look at that and be like, man, I wish I could do that. You you end up being the one like you said earlier that gives other people imposter syndrome.

And I think the, the yolk that comes with that is you should be really open and honest and vulnerable about your journey. And that's where I think even good entrepreneurs, I won't name any names, but I know some lovely people with great intentions that do really good work. They don't talk enough about how in the hell they got there. And I think that's part of the yolk we bear as anyone who's trying to educate other people is you should at least spend a small percentage of your time talking about

how you got there, the losses, falling down, scraping your knee, wanting to give up all the things ⁓ to remain human in this whole thing. And I think about ⁓ acceptance all the time. I think about what's true, what's not, and what can I tell other people that's, I'm going through it too, to let them know this isn't just to make you feel good. You can get there, I got there. It's no, no, no, right now, I'm still continually accepting the fact that I'm a voice in the video field.

And I can call myself an expert because I've been doing it long enough and I have enough hours and results. And that's OK. And I can also say, you know, does anyone else feel like they don't know what they're doing? Like, that's OK to say, right? Even though you gave me money and I helped you achieve a thing, like I can still say out loud, like, I don't know what I'm doing. Right. And then, you know, people sometimes will, like I said, in learning, you know, branding about how your audience determines your brand, sometimes they sometimes determine your value and worth.

And you don't want to always listen to other people's opinions on you, of course, but I think sometimes entertaining some of them or accepting again, some of them is good. And I'll just tell a quick little story where this became real for me. I came back out of the forest, my little retreat or whatever it was, and I wrote an email to about 33, 34 people. And it was all people who were either previous clients who became friends over time, other entrepreneurs, ⁓ people I respected.

Couple of like college professors that I just met along the way and kept in contact with so they were all like acquaintance towards friend somewhere in there and Essentially I was like hey We just lost everything. This isn't a pity party I just want to let you know where I'm at and I just want you to kind of like keep your ear to the ground I don't know what I'm doing next. I don't know what I need yet, but ⁓ I just want to inform the people that have supported me in the most or closest to me about what's going on in my life and ⁓

don't send work my way. It's not that it's, it's just pay attention to what I'm doing. And if you see an opportunity to help, would totally welcome it. Cause we're starting over here from scratch. And I got a hundred percent reply on that email. And I was like, my God. Like, you know, I was in a band that toured and you know, we'd be a thousand miles from home playing to 16 people. And it's like, ⁓ this is tough. You know, so to get a hundred percent reply on the marketing was like, Whoa,

And it really moved me and a lot of the people said similar things, which is like, thank you so much for sharing this. Your vulnerability has helped me since I've read that I felt a little bit more like maybe I can make it a lot of different variations of just thanks for being, you know, vulnerable and fun of everyone. And I was like, this is crazy. So I took advantage of that and I was like, Hey, ⁓ thought experiment for fun. Thank you all for responding. This is incredible. I took the same list and I wrote a thought experiment, a ⁓

reporter comes by from the local news and they're like, Hey, you know that Dan Bennett guy, right? And they put the mic in your face. They're like, yeah, I know Dan pretty well actually. And then the reporter was like, if you had to say, you know, what superpower he had, you know, what, what is that? What do you think Dan superpower is? What's your answer? And I got like 12, 13 responses to that one that were all very, I got a ton of responses in total, but I got 12 to 13 that were all very much the same. And it blew me away. And it was some variation of your voice.

the way you speak, your calm nature. When I worked with you, you made me feel safe while we did this very vulnerable, scary thing. ⁓ You may view your voice as like monotone and boring, but I viewed it as soothing and like you were leading me in the right direction. All this stuff I had never heard in my life. Now I didn't grow up hearing your voice grates me, I hate it, quit talking, you know, but I never ever was aware of any kind of impact that was happening like this. And I accepted that.

I didn't understand it, but I accepted it. I think I have a decent speaking voice as a tool, but I never expected this kind of, so I leaned into it and I've been leaning into it ever since. And then my vulnerability that I kind of package that in so people know that it really comes from an honest place is when you see Coolcom collected, we've got the tools. I'm going to help you fix the thing. The results going to be great. I'm here with you. Inside is insanity. It's

I'm falling apart all over the place. It's, you know, like the, movie of the girl with all the like emotions in her head, that anxiety, what I am, you know, but the way that it comes out through helping other people does seem cool, calm, collected and all the things that you find beneficial. ⁓ so it was a very long answer to acceptance.

Corey Wilks, Psy.D. (: 1:01:47

So I love that cause like.

One thing that people have told me is like when I do like a workshop or, or some sort of, you know, speaking thing, presentation, or even a coaching session, they're like, that was so great. You seemed like, you know, you were so just on point with this whole thing. And I'm like, you know, it was, it was a workshop. I'm like, I was literally finishing slides two minutes before this bitch started. And I didn't know how I was going to land the plane. Like I was winging it and like,

Like you said, like people don't see that all they see is the outside, but the issue that fucks so many of us is that's all we see of other people. We see the outward part. Like we think they're calm, cool and collected when actually their chaos inside it's just they, they have created a filter. You can call it a poker face, whatever that, that implies a little bit of fakeness. So much as just like, I think of us as like, I filter to where that chaos doesn't come out.

because then you're, you're going to feed off of that, of my chaos, of my anxiety. Like one of us has to be fucking calm right now. It's like, it's gotta be one of us. like, but, like you said, it's, it's the thing of we don't, we only know our own internal experiences. We don't know those of others unless those people share that. But like you said, with vulnerability. So, know, Brene Brown, you know, she's had a couple of Ted talks and things. And one of the things that she talked about was like,

Dan Bennett (: 1:02:52

Yeah. Yep. Yep.

Corey Wilks, Psy.D. (: 1:03:19

When we see somebody get up on stage and embrace their own vulnerability, we're like, they're so brave. But when we think about us going up on stage and being vulnerable in public, we're like, I absolutely can't do that because you know that that that's basically that that's that's a weakness, right? Vulnerability is a weakness. And it's like, but if you see other people do you think they're, brave, they're courageous, but you don't think others would view you the same way. Right. And I think that

Dan Bennett (: 1:03:47

Yeah.

Corey Wilks, Psy.D. (: 1:03:49

One, one thing is like, we, you know, we think vulnerability is basically trauma dumping of like, let me just tell you all of my sob stories and like cry in front of you. it's like vulnerability. for me, vulnerability is another word for authenticity because when you are purely yourself, that is when you are most vulnerable because you have nothing, no facade, no protections. It's just you. The issue though.

is when we feel vulnerable, we, we, we think we're in danger, right? Cause like, you know, caveman days, right? I've like the sense of like, of, ex I'm exposed. am therefore in danger. I am, I am, I perceive threats everywhere. We still kind of carry that same psychological response of anytime we feel vulnerable, anytime we feel exposed, we then perceive that as we are at risk. We are in danger.

And then we engage in things that help us avoid feeling like that again, right? There's, there's this, again, this is, you know, should I want to talk about in the book around fear and shit of like just the relationship between like fear, danger, vulnerability and shit, but like, that's why so many of us avoid the things we most need to do, because those are the things that most provoke fear. Right. And it's like, when you think about being your most authentic self, you start to feel vulnerable. You start to feel exposed.

You start to feel fear because you think it means danger. Therefore you avoid anything that provokes fear. The issue is the path that triggers that triggers quote unquote that provokes the most fear probably leads to your most authentic self because it probably leads to the work that deeply resonates with you to the work, you know, you are quote unquote meant to do that feels most aligned, most authentic. And that's why you see so many people

live in this just day to day existential angst of knowing they're meant for more, but not doing anything about it. Because motherfucker, you're avoiding the specific path that leads to the life you want. But that path is full of vulnerability of putting yourself and your ideas out there. The more you avoid that path, the more you avoid the life you actually want.

Dan Bennett (: 1:05:57

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I picture a big door with the word fear on it when you open it on the other side of strength and that's what you want, you know. This kind of, I always struggle to articulate this, but it's actually so impactful in my life. I don't remember where it comes from. I think it's got ties to the military. Me and my brother, since young, have always kind of lived by like, take no shit, do no harm. And we've talked about having really long fuses.

and being proud of the fact because what makes you a man is being able to defuse the situation, not just to punch someone in the face. And this thought of like, what's kind of like cool and sexy to me is quotes like, yeah, it's a quiet one. You got to worry about, and knowing I am the quiet one, you know? And recently I saw you post about ⁓ being a jujitsu practitioner and I didn't know that about you.

And I'm like, I love insights into people's lives outside of business. It's just so cool. And I've known other people in that space as friends. And I've always found it interesting that as a general consensus, ⁓ the more like damage a human could do to another quickly, efficiently, and probably get away with it and be gone and no one even knows what happened, the more likely that individual is to.

be cool, calm, collected to try and defuse situations and to try to not do harm to people. Part of it probably is because they understand the amount of harm they could do, but part of it's because through that discipline, you've also learned discipline. And I think that's just one of the coolest, most, you know, this whole like alpha male epidemic thing we have and all that kind of stuff. I think one of the coolest, most manly things in the world is to be able to navigate through vulnerability. I just think that is incredibly powerful and

You can't show me an episode of undercover boss without me crying. Like it's going to happen. Even if it's all staged in fake to reality TV, I just know that it's touching something in me that wants to be someone like that who sees opportunity. It, you know, takes care of it, helps and also ⁓ is vulnerable in the process. And it's willing to be like, I didn't know it was this bad. I overlooked that. I need to be a better leader. I also want to help you. ⁓ so that show always gets me cause it's kind of like a

a little pill of what I think, you know, real authenticity is, which is exactly what you said, being vulnerable and on a consistent basis, man, getting naked on a consistent basis. It's like my whole goal is to never have clothes metaphorically ⁓ because it's it's a tough thing to do, but it leads to such great results.

Corey Wilks, Psy.D. (: 1:08:49

That's the opener. So, so like, you know, Jordan Peterson is a polarizing person depending on what era of Peterson you came in with. But, ⁓ one of the quotes that I do like by him is he says, a harmless man is not a good man. A good man is a very dangerous man who has it under voluntary control. Right. And so speaking like with martial arts, right? So like, you, if you actually can't do any harm,

Dan Bennett (: 1:08:51

Yeah.

Corey Wilks, Psy.D. (: 1:09:17

then you don't have the capability. Therefore, the fact that you don't engage in it doesn't actually make you a good person because there is no restraint. There is no control because you don't have that power in the first place. Right. And like dude, especially with jujitsu, the, some of the, the most murderous motherfuckers are like just these twig nerd, you know, Joe Rogan calls them like nerd assassins or whatever, like

Dan Bennett (: 1:09:26

Yeah.

Corey Wilks, Psy.D. (: 1:09:46

They look like fucking dweebs who work in tech support and who like can't get a girlfriend or some shit, right? But they will straight up murder you. Like I have had my dick kicked in so many fucking times by like a 17 year old that's like 145 pounds and I'm like six foot, like two 40 give or take. And I've been training 13 years and it's just like, like don't worry. Like there, are like behemoths as well, but like more often than not.

the most dangerous motherfuckers in the room are the tiny people because the tiny people had to learn to overcome the size and strength of everybody else. Right. And, but yeah, like consistently, like the, the most dangerous people I've met, whether it is martial arts, whether it is military, whether it is like people who've actually engaged in various and secondary things, ⁓ you'd never know it.

because they're so calm. They're so, you know, and like do like a brief story. Like at one point I was doing therapy. Some of the people I worked with were like shredded, like convicted murderers, like not alleged convicted. They, they admitted to it and like not even in like a serial killer way, cause they weren't like trying to be like super cares about it, but like they were just so fucking calm and like there was never a threat. There was just like,

Yeah, I know for a fact I can kill people because I have done it before. I have nothing to prove. And like, and dude, like, and like some of the people I know who are like, you know, Rangers or seals and shit like that, who like did in combat and things like there's cause they're like, buddy, I got nothing to prove. You can raise your voice at me. That doesn't do anything. You take a single swing at me. You will not wake up. And like, it's not a threat. It's a fact, but, but it's just a thing of like,

Dan Bennett (: 1:11:18

Yeah.

Corey Wilks, Psy.D. (: 1:11:43

You know, insecurity shows because insecurity requires compensatory behaviors. It requires you to compensate for it. If you have nothing to compensate for, you don't engage in any of those behaviors, right? But I think it's a similar, like, you know, we also see this though in business, in, creative acts and things. It's like, it's the people who are constantly

trying to prove like, I know what I'm doing or like, Hey, look at me or Hey, this or Hey, that it's like, man, the, the, the most successful people I know are fucking quiet.

Dan Bennett (: 1:12:21

Yeah, I have a can of worms. I to see if you can help me open. ⁓ It's another thing that I've always had a difficult time articulating. And when I try to, I often talk for like a half an hour and try and be as explanatory as possible and still not get the point across. ⁓ But I see and I'll try and give an example. Maybe that'll be the can opener making at least a little hole. Like I'll see someone do something negative and then they're terrible at it.

Corey Wilks, Psy.D. (: 1:12:25

Let's do it.

Dan Bennett (: 1:12:50

And I have this response where I'm like, I mean, at least lie well, or like at least like, you know, gaslight to a point to where they don't know they're being gaslit, you know, and it's not because I want bad things to happen ever. I hate that, that kind of behavior. And I would squash it all out if I could, but I still have this like, I mean, if you're going to be shitty, like at least do a good job at it, you know? And then I think about myself and I'm like, if I were to be fill in the blank, a criminal, a killer or whatever, I feel like I'd be kind of good at it.

And I feel like you said, no one would know. And I feel like I would go about my day and be the guy that gets groceries and everyone's like, he's no threat. ⁓ so the can of worms is like, I've, I feel a little bad every time I'm like, I wish you were bad better because you being bad and bad at it really pisses me off. And I, again, I could just work around this for half hour and get nowhere, but like, that's this like feeling this kind of like, I wish more people were.

really, really good at what they did and I had no clue. And then I could discover that through relationship and conversation and stuff like that. But do you have any thoughts on that or did it make any sense at all what I'm trying to point at?

Corey Wilks, Psy.D. (: 1:14:00

Yeah.

So I think just taking pride in your craft, whatever your craft is, right? I think that people who don't have a craft, again, whatever that is, right? Like hopefully your craft isn't lying or murdering. And you know, your craft can be woodworking. It can be public speaking. It can be coaching. It can be videography, right? Color grading, whatever, right?

but have a craft because without a craft, you're, you're sort of a drift, right? And like, honestly, like your craft can even be being a father or a mother, right? Like some people are like phenomenal at that. And like, there is a craftsmanship in their ability to do that, right? It's, it's, it's awe inspiring to see people who are legitimate, like craftsman crafts, people, whatever gender term you want to put to it, crafts, people with a given thing.

because there is such, there's beauty in that there's investment in that. Like you can tell how much effort went into something that looks effortless, right? But you can really only tell that if you yourself have also developed your own craft. Otherwise you don't appreciate the effort that goes into making something look effortless, right? Like, like somebody who plays guitar.

All right, somebody please get who does it really, really well. It looks effortless. It looks like you just a fucking bum off the street could pick up a Stratocaster. So she's good. Look at me. And, as in because they make it look so easy, so effortless, right? Or like a violinist, like, ⁓ you're there's just do fucking doing this. It's fine. No, decades went into that, that that fluidity with which they move.

that you can't even begin to comprehend until you either have invested in your own craft. So you understand like the subtleties of it, or you've actually tried to pick up a fucking guitar or violin or some other shit. And you're like, actually, I'm just a fucking monkey with rocks trying to smash it a keyboard. Right? So, so I think, I think there's part of that because in your own life, personally, professionally, whatever you have developed craftsmanship around certain areas.

Dan Bennett (: 1:16:11

Yep.

Corey Wilks, Psy.D. (: 1:16:23

And you have seen, you know, entrepreneurship for me is just personal growth in disguise because building a business will surface all of your insecurities, all of your character flaws, right? You talked earlier about like, you know, you're moving into like more like a leadership role. ⁓ I've worked with people before with coaching and they're like, look,

I, my churn is around 12 to 18 months. I can't keep anybody on my team for longer than that because I constantly crack the whip because I basically thought that I could like self-flagellate myself to success. could beat myself into, into a successful life. I inherently don't trust other people because I don't trust myself.

And that becomes a microcosm of every interaction that I have. So I don't build psychological safety with my team. I don't build that sense of that, that environment of, of rapport, of trust, of respect, because I think you should be good on your own. My job is to come in, crack the whip to get you back on track. So you only talk to me when you fuck up and I have such a high bar for quality, almost to perfection and such a low tolerance for

imperfection. And it's like, that starts with you. That is how you see yourself. And until you deal with that yourself, that will continue to come out in every single one of your interactions. So it's like, and that's what I'm saying, like entrepreneurship is personal development in disguise, because it's like, if you want to succeed in business, you have to fuck with yourself. You have to deal with your insecurities.

Dan Bennett (: 1:18:06

Yeah.

Corey Wilks, Psy.D. (: 1:18:08

you know, even like, you know, some of the work you do, like with, you know, being on camera and shit, it's like, if you don't believe in yourself, that will come across on camera, that will come across to your audience. And then that will impede your ability to succeed because you don't have confidence in yourself. And if you don't have confidence in yourself, how can you expect anyone else to have confidence in you? So like, that's what I'm saying. So, but on the opposite side, if you've seen the, the, the ROI basically,

of craftsmanship. You've seen the beauty. You've seen the personal improvement along with the professional improvement of investing in a craft. You want to see that in other people because you're just like you're wasting your fucking time. Like if you're going to lie, take pride in your life. Like fucking treat it like a craft, right? Like it's that it's like, why are you wasting your potential? You're just kind of coasting through life. And it's just like, it's such a waste.

Dan Bennett (: 1:18:53

Exactly.

Yeah.

Yeah,

dude, just like, for years I've been talking about this and you just gave such a great lens, like craftsmanship. That is the thing, man. That is what's happening. Like, it's a little cliche, but I'm sure it comes to fruition in your life in places as well. ⁓ Slow is smooth and smooth is fast. But like in my world, it's so true because so much goes into pre-production and that making the rest of it easier and faster and better. So I latched onto that the first time I ever heard it. I'm like, this is filmmaking.

101 like you have to be slow and purposeful up front or everything down the line falls apart and Until today I never related that to craftsmanship But that's exactly what that is get the right lumber make sure your saws are sharp your planer sharp Okay, we've got our plans. We've got our templates. Okay now we're going to woodwork like that is the thing that I've been like identifying here and there and just being frustrated by in entrepreneurship as well

Even going back to what I said earlier about people not showing enough of how they got there and only showing the wins. I want to see your tools and I want to see your previous projects that were a little wonky, but they worked and I want to see the wins. Also, I want to see the craftsmanship. That's so good, man. I'm definitely taking that with me.

Corey Wilks, Psy.D. (: 1:20:21

And like, dude, the other thing again, like with your work, like you basically work with people who already have a high level of craftsmanship just in a different area. What it sounds like what you really kind of do is you're like, let's effectively scale this. Let's let's put you in this medium, this format that allows you to share your craftsmanship at a higher level and in a way that resonates with people.

Cause it's, you, right? It's you on camera. And like, think that's another key piece of like, you are effectively helping people expand the, the reach, the resonance of, their craftsmanship.

Dan Bennett (: 1:21:08

Yeah, yeah, ⁓ it is. Yeah, like ⁓ I often tell people it's a little bit to make them feel better, but it's also true that. You know, just think about where you're great already, where you can self identify as great. It could be in the boardroom. It could be on a stage. It could be at that one on one coffee meeting. Could be on a zoom call. Could be when you're alone and reading and really digesting some information and data and going, I know exactly how I'm going to use this wherever you're the best. We just want to capture that greatness.

and all we need is an 80%. We need a B minus. If we can get a B minus representation of how great you are at your best, we are crushing everything around us. Like it's insane. And oftentimes they can relate that just very basic analogy to like, me? B minus is when I kind of studied, maybe drank a little bit on the weekend and then rushed my paper and still I knew enough, you know? So like, I think I could do that with video, know? Giving them again permission to like,

I just need a B-. And everything from B- to A +, is reps, how good you get on camera, how you ideate and come up with better ideas over time, all of the stuff that people are afraid of in video, that all comes after just getting to like 80%. And yeah, I wish more people would show that craftsmanship in their work, because most of them are already awesome.

Corey Wilks, Psy.D. (: 1:22:28

one like so I like many people was really inspired by like Peter McKinnon, right? Peter McKinnon like his shit is so good, but he fucked me up early on because I was like, ⁓ I'm going to do color grading like Peter McKinnon. Like I love his aesthetic. I'm going to have all this. And then, I was watching like Becky and Chris and I was like, I love like the Matt blacks and like the dark moody cinematic. I fucking loved it. So it's like, okay, my YouTube videos are going to be like this and like

Dan Bennett (: 1:22:47

Yeah, well, I them. Yeah.

Corey Wilks, Psy.D. (: 1:22:58

Dude, spent one obviously like I have a fucking Canon M 50. I've got like an entry level, like, you know, I only mirror. I think it's a mirrorless camera. I only fucking know whatever the fuck kind of camera that says clearly. I don't know. I have an entry level camera. They're dealing with like thousand dollar cameras and lenses and all this other shit, right? And like they have a background in it. Plus they know how to use, you know, the high end color grading software to venture resolve with all the fucking hardware, fiddly bits and shit. I don't.

And like, I tried it for a minute and it was obviously at the very beginning. It's a huge learning curve to just learn the software. But even that, like the amount of effort that went into it. And I wasn't even like recording and log or whatever. Like I was just fucking, like I didn't know if I was done. Everything was so much harder. But then one day I was like, what am I trying to become greater? I am not trying to become a world-class editor or color grader.

What I'm trying to become world-class at is, is speaking, is helping people, is sharing my knowledge. That is my focus. I want to help people put themselves and their ideas out into the world. want to help them reach their potential, however they define it so that they do not waste their life and then get to their death bed and look back with regret at all the things they wish they would have done and actually could have, but didn't out of fear or something else.

That is what I'm trying to become world-class at. So anything that isn't that isn't what I focus on. And just like that idea of like, what am I trying to do right now? I am not trying to be a world-class color grader. That helped me so much of like, okay, then I'm not going to fuck with color grading. I'm not going to try. Like, would it be cool to like one day collaborate with some, some, some videographers and like do the cinematic thing? Of course. But I will deal with craftsman.

where that is their craft. I am trying to become a craftsman at this craft. That's what collaborations are for.

Dan Bennett (: 1:25:01

Yeah,

it's so good. Or get into a size where you hire people and you're like, you do that fancy stuff, I'm just talking. And I'll say this on record and a thousand miles away from just saying it to be nice. Like you are doing the thing you just said you're trying to do. And I'll give you an example, man. When I listen to your stuff, when I read your stuff, when I watch your stuff, I see this pattern often come up that is just, it's so...

sophisticated and clean, but it's also so simplistic, like many great things are once you finally hone them. And it's kind of this run of, hey human, hi, I'm human. Hey human, here's this very complex thing. and earlier when I was human and you were human, I nodded at the fact that like, I went to school for this, I studied this, I've spent hours and hours and hours inside people's brains on my own, you know, and all that stuff. ⁓

So what I'm gonna do for you, because I care about you, is I'm gonna move to this next stage where I take very complex thing, but I need you to know it because it is important and make it very understandable through either story, analogy, metaphor, or my favorite, which I don't think enough people that make video do, including myself, I'm under the bus, I'm climbing out. ⁓ Hey, concept, example, by the way,

That example is a real world thing. I took the time to look, another creator, a little article, a something something where I'm like, you should do this thing. by the way, a quick example. And you've done that on this call several times. You've taken me down that exact journey of, human, I'm also human. By the way, I've got credentials. I don't need to talk about them a ton, but they're there. Complex subject, by the way, the four horsemen. I mean, you took me through, I can only imagine how many years you have in fear.

And you made it this like three minute understandable quadrant where I'm like, yep, yep, yep. yeah. And that is, think craftsmanship. I think that is you accomplishing the thing you're setting out to do. ⁓ it's, it's incredible. And it's interesting to me because what I'm trying to do, if I ever make a dent in the universe, it's going to buy be by making, you know, helping 10,000 other people make a dent, not through me making a big fat one myself. And

See, you're not a client of mine. I've never instructed you. We've never talked about video or storytelling or anything. But seeing someone like you doing what you're doing is representation of what I want to do. I want to help people get to where you are with a less painful road to get there, you know. But yeah, you're doing it, man. And it makes me proud and it's exciting because I think more people need to just like, I think another cliche thing I hate to say, but like, keep it real. Like you're keeping it real.

And I appreciate that because there's just too much sugar all over everything. like, we need some salt once in a while. Damn it. Thank you.

Corey Wilks, Psy.D. (: 1:28:01

I deeply appreciate that very, very much.

you know, and likewise, we're like, said like we haven't worked together. My thing that was like, you know, I, I, I saw this at some point of like old school, like talk show hosts, what they would do is they wouldn't. So like if a celebrity came, like an actor came on, the majority of the interview wouldn't be about the movie. The majority of interview would be about the person. Cause then, so there's just this thing in psychology called the halo effect. Basically if somebody has one good quality, we assume they have others. It like a halo.

So old school talk show hosts, they would be like, let's get to know the person. And then at the very end, it's like, Hey, this person has a movie coming out. If you like this person, you'll probably like this movie. Right. And when I, you know, was, was coming up with, with doing the show and things, I was like, I want my first priority is building a deeper relationship with the individual. Right. And obviously, you know, secondary is building a deeper relationship with the people who listen and watch, of course.

But my thing is, like, I want to get to know you as the individual. And I want to get to know your journey internally through your entrepreneurial, you know, successes, quote unquote failures, lessons learned, your own personal life, because not enough people do that. So many interviews in like the business space are basically just a long sales pitch, right? But my thing is, is like,

though we haven't worked together, I implicitly trust your work because I trust you. Because I trust that you bring a level of craftsmanship and professional pride in the work that you do, that you wouldn't offer something that you wouldn't be willing to put your name, your reputation behind. And I want other people to get to know you.

so that if ever they are in the market for any of the things that you do, be like, ⁓ Dan's my dude, because I got to know Dan. I feel like I know him and I can trust him. I understand what makes him unique as, know, as opposed to all the other people who, who may or may not be offering similar or even maybe the same types of services to one degree or another. Obviously we all want to say that ours, our shit is, is, is very different, right? And it is to a degree.

But it's also like here, you know, categorically, these are similar, but like, I want people to get to know you. I wanted to get to know you better. Cause like we had had some conversations, we had, you know, vied and things. ⁓ but we hadn't had the opportunity. I hadn't had the excuse to just sit down for an hour and a half plus and just fucking talk and like get to know each other process of shit. Like, you know, can of worms kind of thing.

Dan Bennett (: 1:30:54

Yeah.

Corey Wilks, Psy.D. (: 1:30:58

and just fucking riff on things and share our experiences. And that's why, that's why I wanted to do this show in general. This is why I wanted to have you on specifically because more people need to get to know you. Um, and like another thing that I, I think about, we've talked about vulnerability a lot is I call it tactical vulnerability. So a lot of people, when they, like I said before, a lot of people, when they think about vulnerability, they think about like trauma dumping.

for me, tactical vulnerability basically comes down to what about myself or my own experiences can I share in this moment that will either help illustrate a point or make this person feel heard, validated, or in some way help them come to a deeper understanding of where they're at. So like, again, you know, you, you briefly mentioned, you know, growing up poor and, and violence, you I'm like, ⁓

in no way trying to one up, but being like, Hey, I came from a similar ish background and I would wager that immediately built some trust and understanding. And I think that for all of us,

Finding our own comfort level with tactical vulnerability is one of the most differentiation things, whatever the word is for you, because so many other people have a similar expertise or components of your expertise. Other people may have better copywriting. They may have a bigger team for marketing and ads. They may have whatever.

But if people feel like they know you, that they resonate with you, ⁓ that is going to be the reason they choose you over anybody else. And whether that is they choose you to give you their money, to give you their time, to like read your shit, watch your shit, listen to your shit, recommend you to other people in a way that you may never actually find out about. It's that tactical vulnerability of sharing the parts of yourself

that that person needs to see in that moment.

Dan Bennett (: 1:33:15

Yeah,

man, that's another lens into something I feel often and couldn't put words to. ⁓ and it's being tactical about your vulnerability is not bad. Being strategic about your kindness is not bad. It's not, you're not playing people, you know, you're navigating and that's not bad. And I think sometimes we get caught up in myself.

Like said, I'm anti-Snake-O-Anti-Guru. I get caught up in like, gotta be so the other way that I could never have a lead magnet, because I don't want someone thinking I'm one of those guys. And then you learn like, no, if I'm giving valuable, telling the truth, know, giving value, telling the truth and leading you somewhere that's helpful and not tricking you, I'm okay, you know? So like one of the things that, it happened kind of in front of my eyes and it's just been such a game changer for me personally, is I used to look at this very much.

as a deficit and in front of my eyes this thing that seemed like, that sucks. That's the case. It's a deficit, whatever, bloomed into a superpower. It never moved. I was watching it and it changed from a deficit to a superpower. And it was the fact that I didn't have any business owners in my family. I didn't have a mentor. I didn't go to business school. I had no idea what business was. Even when I was in a band helping other bands do their, I'll date myself, their MySpaces and like their t-shirts and

you know, all the different design elements I could help another band do to help tell their story. I didn't know the word entrepreneur at that time. I was just solving problems and being creative at the same time. And so get into business and I have no idea what I'm doing. And I look at this as a deficit. And it's the fact that I had no knowledge of business. So all I had to go on was, well, this is what I do in life. Relationships, keeping my word, helping people when I see they need help.

taking some pizza and beer to help lift your heavy couch into your truck, like, and I'm gonna take it over here and I'm gonna put it in business where people give me money for my knowledge and service, because I don't know what to do. And now in retrospect, looking back, one of the best things I ever could have done was built this business as a human would as opposed to what four years of college might have taught me or told me to do. And that vulnerability component has been like, I don't know what I'm doing.

So I'm just gonna treat you and build relationship like I would in regular life. And then now, instead of being like, you need to build relationships. That's what business is all about. Look what it's done for me. I tell the story in a way of like, I used to be terrified of this and think I was a loser. And it became a superpower and holy crap, I bet you have things you view as deficits right now that your audience will see as endearing qualities in you. And then later, like you said, trust you to either do business or spend their time. It's so powerful.

And again, I wish more conversations like this happened in more places where we're just kind of like, like, sorry, you guys see me naked, but here it is. ⁓

Corey Wilks, Psy.D. (: 1:36:18

Well, and like, don't even remember if a specific person said this, or I just kind of percolated it from multiple sources, but this, this concept of statistics don't move people stories do. When I, again, whether I heard it or kind of just came to my head that fundamentally shifted how I approach showing up.

because I think so many people think, I get coming from academia, right? Like, you grad school shit. Like I was in school for fucking 12 years or some shit college. So like you're used to, I remember one of my, my mentors, he specifically, he was like, nobody cares what your opinion is until you have doctor in front of your name. When I got doctor for my name, I stopped quoting statistics. I was like, fine, cool. Fuck everybody. Like, but like academia like fucks you up.

Dan Bennett (: 1:37:10

Yeah.

Corey Wilks, Psy.D. (: 1:37:15

because it's like, you're not allowed to have your own opinion. You're not allowed to tell your own story. You have to quote somebody else. You have to cite something else. No opinion you have is valid unless a statistic backs it up. And in some situations that, that should be the case, right? When you're talking about treatments and shit, of course, but people don't remember statistics. Also statistics fucking change every, every goddamn research article that comes out. It's a new fucking statistic, right? Stories stick with people.

Stories move people, stories inspire people. So whether it is your own personal stories or stories about your experiences or things you hear about other people, I am always thinking, what is a story I can tell? What is a metaphor I can come up with? A term I can coin that will better illustrate this idea because I am really prone to just lecturing.

Like just fucking dry blunt, like here's the answer. Here's the takeaway. And I honestly, I still suck at telling stories. ⁓ I've taken like dedicated like courses and read books just on storytelling. And I still, I, I ⁓ so fucking suck at it, but it's just the idea of in being in service to this other person, how can I better relay this? Because if I just tell you the answer, or if I quote some bullshit statistic, that isn't really going to stick with you.

but this story is right. One of my favorite examples is the obstacles away by Ryan Holiday. In that book, I think it's that book. He talks about ⁓ like the banana King, some shit. So long story short, basically there is this plot of land that two people want to get the deed for, for like banana trees or some shit. One is like the underdog. He's a guy like single person, doesn't have a fuck ton of money and is trying to figure out who owns the deed to this land.

And there's this big mega corporation that has endless money. The issue with the piece of land is that two people claim to have the property deeped. Clearly one is fake, but you don't know which one it is. The big mega company hires, spends all this fucking money, like hiring attorneys to like dig into their archives to figure out like, it this person? this person, which person do we buy this off of? Cause one is lying. The other dude, the underdog is like, I don't have money to do all of that.

So I will just spend my money buying the deeds from both people because that guarantees I have the correct one. So it was like the, the, point of the story was like, what is your goal? What are you actually trying to accomplish? This guy wasn't trying to figure out who owned the deed. He was trying to own the fucking deed and like that's, couldn't tell you what the fuck else is in that book. That story has stayed with me for fucking years.

Dan Bennett (: 1:39:57

Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah, it's it's going to stay

with me now 100 % and I love that you said I don't know what else is in that book because I have so many books where when people you know, You're on calls network events, whatever they like what books do you recommend? I'm like I can recommend plenty but I can only tell you one thing from each one so that's what I'm gonna tell you and The example I always give is the one thing

I don't know, do something right now that makes everything else either unnecessary to do or easier to do. I can't tell you anything else from that book, but it's kind of the main point. So if you want to buy it, go ahead. ⁓ mean, the storytelling element is so important and it's interesting in our world because we talk a little bit about story. It's one of the topics I talk about on YouTube, but we don't have like a story, you know, like offering or like product or we don't help people tell their stories. We just try and trick them into telling better stories as they go. But it's so powerful.

And I think about it every day because it really is like at the the center of everything that we do. And we trick again people into doing it. So we internally call it story bacon. Like you got to take the Brussels sprout and wrap some bacon around it so someone will eat the vegetable because this is how you know, makes medicine go down. And a super simple example that worked so well. And afterwards I looked at it, I'm like, duh.

was every year we take as a company called Wistia. They're like a video hosting ⁓ platform. You can do all kinds of great stuff with video after you host it there. They put out a state of video report each year and they not only say all their internal data, but a bunch of other big companies data like Tik Tok and HubSpot and Hootsuite and all these different places. And they give you data, but they do it in a really colorful and fun way, easy to understand and kind of geared towards entrepreneurship and business. So last year it came out, we made some videos about some of the

Data points in there that propped up things that I already teach and believe so I'm like, cool I can teach something and then say look it's in the report and they know way more than me go look and so this year we were ready for it and so everything was in place our framework was in place soon as it dropped we made 17 videos out of it and like nine posts and five Carousels and it just went out over all last month and one of the best performing pieces that made the most impact and I actually got DMS about like man that was such a great point was that they showed

that out of all the pages on a website, the third highest performing, and it was only a little bit behind number one and number two, ⁓ highest performing videos, not only in click through rate, but in retention throughout the video, was on the Contact Us page. And I'm like, who's putting videos on the, it's always just a form and a button, like hey, if you wanna know something, get ahold of us. And then I went and looked at the first two, and it was ⁓ video galleries.

So just, we have videos in this place, you can come watch them. And then courses. I'm like, well, of course those both have high engagement, because it's a video gallery, I'm gonna click on a video, and it's a course, I'm here to watch it, and I might have paid for it, you know? So for the third one, above homepage and sales page and all of it to be contact us, I thought was super intriguing. So I made a video about it, and then the story to go with that video, since I didn't have this original thought, it wasn't propping up something I already believe or teach.

I went to my team and I'm like, why do we think this is? We don't have to have the right answer, but why do we think this is? And just through about a half an hour of conversation, spaghetti at the wall, we all came to the kind of the same conclusion, which was like, if you're on someone's contact us page, you're already leaning in. You've been there, you've had to click a button, go somewhere you want to contact or at least see what they're all about or what you're gonna get if you contact them. And if you go to a contact page and there's a video and it's only 45 seconds long, so it's like, well, I can watch a short video.

And then someone pops up when you hit play and they're like, Hey, thanks for filling out this contact form. Here's what's going to happen next. We're going to do this. We're going to do this. You're going to get a calendar button. I'm going to show up just like I am right now. And we're going to solve your problems. Talk soon. Holy crap. And you didn't even have to be there to do it. So all I did was tell our version of why we thought maybe this page performs so well. And that video did the best out of all the videos, all the posts, all the stuff we created. And it was because there was a tiny little story in there that people could relate to. And we also didn't say,

The data is king. We also didn't say we know better. We're just like, we talked about it and we think maybe this is why. Crazy, you know? So yeah, storytelling, it can be used in so many forms and I think it's been kind of bastardized and overused. So it's like, what does that even mean? But then at the same time, we make it way too complex. And sometimes it's just adding a little bit of color and flavor to what happened in real life. That's about it, you know? But it's a powerful one.

And although it is kind of a trendy term, I wish more people dove in depth and talk more about that too, because it's how we communicate. And I don't want to be bored. So like mix those two things and tell me a great story.

Corey Wilks, Psy.D. (: 1:44:55

Well, like toward the very beginning of this conversation, you know, we, we touched on how more and more companies and brands are basically trying to, to be personal brands. You're trying to feel like people because people follow people. Right? Yes. In, niche situations, people love companies cause like there's usually like an ethos around the company. That's like a movement. But generally speaking, you don't really give a shit about a company. You give a shit about

person behind the company or the people behind the company, right? You know, Seth Godin, one thing he talks about a lot is people like us do things like this. I fucking love Seth Godin and just how like his, just his calm, blunt delivery of shit. And like, but like that, that that's the whole thing of like people like us do things like this. That is how you build your fucking tribe. That is how you attract the right people. Both again, people in your, in your quote, quote audience who aren't customers, but those quickly become like,

Dan Bennett (: 1:45:35

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Corey Wilks, Psy.D. (: 1:45:53

You know, they, they become evangelized. Like they're the ones who go out and talk to other people about your shit. And it's like, and then obviously other people become customers. And it's like, think about the thing that you in a good way, shill relentlessly because you so fucking love the thing you so fucking love the person behind the thing. And it's like one, if more of us could rep our own shit with the same like level of fervor, we rep our favorite thing, right?

Dan Bennett (: 1:46:18

Yeah.

Corey Wilks, Psy.D. (: 1:46:22

Like, cause it's

like, I feel salesy talking about my own shit. But it's like, you know, one of the, one of the, books like I show relentlessly is Paul Miller is the pathless path. I fucking love Paul. Like I know Paul Paul's a friend. I 60 plus thousand, you know, people have bought this book and things. I read Paul's book so goddamn much. And I honestly haven't even read the whole thing purely because like I I've read a lot of Paul's other work before, you know, this. So like, I'm very familiar with everything in it.

But like, I hope I rep my own book half as much as I rep Paul's book. Cause it's like, I don't feel sales. You'll pause. I'm like, it's legit. Like it's fucking great. Like everybody should read his book, but it's like, it's that thing of think about the, the, favorite thing, your, your favorite, whatever, or your favorite person. There's a reason for that. And part of that is you feel like you know them right. Parasocial relationships is called in psychology, but it's this whole idea of like, I feel like I know this person.

Dan Bennett (: 1:46:57

Yeah. Yeah.

Corey Wilks, Psy.D. (: 1:47:22

You can't know a company. You can't know a business because that is a nonliving entity without a story, without a history, without insecurities, right? We bond over shared vulnerability. So like people follow people. So you need to be a person if you want to resonate with other people. Right. And I think that that, that is something that you and your, you know, your team,

Dan Bennett (: 1:47:46

Yeah. Yeah.

Corey Wilks, Psy.D. (: 1:47:53

seem to focus on is like, how do we bring the person out?

Dan Bennett (: 1:47:55

Try.

Try. Yeah, and man, we got to put a post-it note next to this section of the conversation to tie it back to the quiet assassin. Seth Godin is such the guy that will drop a bomb and slowly walk away. And you're like, hold on a minute, bro. You just said something so profound. need a minute. You know, if I see interviews with him, I'll pause them and just walk away and write things on a whiteboard and go, we'll go. What? Because it is people like us do things like this.

So profound that it's like pause. I'm gonna need a minute to go think about this for a week and I'll come back but anyway, yeah, like I I am a Truth-seeker in the sense of I think we all have things that are true that are worth sharing and the quicker we get to them the more impact we can have and Yolo and all the things right like we're here for a blink of an eye. So why not? try to make the most impact we can and I got this kind of like

Background underlying motivator is a secondary little fuel tank in my my car if you will that I tap into every once in a while and I think about it daily and it's this kind of internal mission I have of more good people good subjective to a certain degree But somewhere it becomes objective and I think we can all agree on a lot of what makes someone a good person More good people need bigger bank accounts We live in a society on this side of the world where money is leverage

and leverages influence. like, I think more good people need bigger bank accounts. And so I try to help people who I know are good people build their businesses bigger, make more of an impact. And a lot of times that comes all the way back to what we're saying, which is telling a great story and giving of your true self. And I used to get this question all the time. I don't get it as much now. I do if I do a workshop and stuff like that, but I used to get it all the time on social and it would be

You know, Dan, you seem so authentic. Like, how do I be more authentic? And I would get scared because internally I'm like, if you're asking another human how to be authentic, you're fucked. Like, first of all, don't ask me. Second of all, I'm going to tell you how I am authentic. And then you look at that and see if it inspires something in yourself to find your own version of what that is. And then with a little bit of humor, but 100 % truth, I say I'm lazy. Now you can look at my output.

year over year and not believe I'm lazy. Just like you could look at all my videos and not believe I'm an introvert. But I am lazy. And what that laziness does is say, hey, we are not spending a single ounce of energy or a single second of time putting on a persona to try to sell stuff or get bigger or move people emotionally. So that's off the table. All you get is me. And it's not I'm so authentic. Look, I'm so myself. No, I'm lazy as fuck.

And I'm not going to put any time or energy into trying to be something else because I can't because that time energy has to feed my family. So it's going over here. And that is my truth. Authenticity comes from not having the energy to be inauthentic because I bet I am totally capable of being really many manipulative and really good. And I bet I could build a character and I can make a lot of money off a character. I just can't put my time and energy into that. So authenticity is kind of the distilled.

version of me because that's all you get. It's went through the funnel. Drink it and like it or walk away.

Corey Wilks, Psy.D. (: 1:51:23

Well, inherently.

When you are for people, when you are for one group, you're not for another group. And I think that a common trap, a lot of us, ⁓ might fall into sometimes, especially early on is, you know, trying to be everything to everybody. And you ended up being nothing to nobody, right? Which again is a cliche, but I remember again, at one point in grad school, it was like, you need to cut off parts of your personality that are too strong.

And like, remember one point, like when I was going up for interviews, ⁓ for internship, one of my supervisors called me. was like, Hey, cause he said my tongue pierced. was like, Hey, take your tongue ring out for your interviews. I was like, okay, but this one I got coming up as a phone interview. So they won't see me. He was like, I don't care. Take it out. Anyway, it'll somehow come up like just unconsciously or some bullshit. Like the fact that you have your tongue ring in will somehow magically make you unprofessional and

I didn't. And then like, you know, later I got other body mods, but like, and, and when I got my sleep, it's like, I made the conscious decision of like, I'm not going to cover these up. You will know right out the gate if I'm for you or not. And I'm not trying to prove anything. I'm not trying to compensate. I'm trying to say, Hey, I am authentic. And I, and cause man, when we embrace our own authenticity, we give others permission to embrace their own. So many people walk around day to day wishing

they could be more authentic.

And they're waiting for permission. And you shouldn't wait for permission for shit like that, but easier said than done. So I just try to be a model of like, this is how I talk all the time. This is how I look all the time. Some people hate cuss words. They hate tattoos. That is completely valid. I am not for you. And I am not going to be less of me to be more for you. That's not like I'm going to vibe with people who fucking get it. You can find somebody else.

There's it isn't good or bad. It just is. You got to find the people you know, you feel aligned with. And I think that there's so much vulnerability with that of like you're you're taking a stage. You're like this is who I am and this is who I am going to be in front of people. That's fucking terrifying.

Dan Bennett (: 1:53:48

Yeah, yeah, dude, that's so good. God, I could talk to you for hours. I found someone a little over a month ago and we're heading into this rebrand. I was like, what great timing for YouTube to suggest this person to me. And I never heard of him before. I might even get his name wrong. I think it's Caleb, like Ralston. And he was like Gary Vee's main guy for a long time. And then he worked with Hermosy and all this stuff. And he came out of the gate.

Corey Wilks, Psy.D. (: 1:53:53

You

Dan Bennett (: 1:54:15

Like video too with like a six hour course with a ⁓ complimentary handbook. He's like, this is everything I know. And you could so tell it was not a play to get views or watch time. It was, we're coming out of the gate showing you everything I know. And now I can talk into the future and be me in any way I want to go. I can go and all this stuff. And so I was watching, you know, going through some of this stuff. And then a few days ago, ⁓ friend of ours,

J. Klaus put out a podcast where he had Caleb on the show. I'm like, I recognize that face. Like, I'm going to listen to this, you know? And 30 seconds in, he's cussing. He's got a beard. He's got tattoos. He rides a Harley. I'm like, this is one of my guys. Like, OK. And then within two minutes, not only did I like vibe with him and his just kind of nonchalant, no BS attitude towards Brandon, what it means and the depth it can still have, even if you're a rock and roll hardcore kind of guy.

I started to also build even more trust and relatability for Jay, because he is so not that guy. And he was allowing that on his show, which tells me he trusts this person. He trusts the information enough that he knows his audience needs it. And there might have been a little bit, I'm guessing, I don't know for sure of like, whoo, ⁓ that's a lot of bombs, you know. But it just made me respect both men so much more because it was just so raw and like straight to the point. It's.

No offense, Jay, I love your stuff. I always will. I don't always go and listen to his full podcast. I get bits and pieces out of I skip around front to back. I watched the whole thing and I'm like, Jay allowed this to happen and he asked great questions. Caleb was himself and I knew that because I had seen part of this course and he was saying the same things, same convictions, same dude. And I'm like, trust across the board. High fives everyone, you know, and that's what it can do. Even people like you and I who are aware this is happening.

while it's happening are still impacted by it, even though we know what's going on. Because we live in these meta worlds where we are like doing the thing, we're practicing what we preach, we're eating our own dog food. And it sometimes is even more impactful to see people doing stuff the right way, even though you know like, you're being authentic, I see what you're doing there, you know. It hits even harder sometimes because it's like, man, what a great representation of, again, just like keeping it real and let's get to a point as quickly as possible where you're like,

Yeah, you know, I've never viewed any of Dan's videos and been like, I think he's trying to pull an over on me. And I hope you never do.

Corey Wilks, Psy.D. (: 1:56:48

Well, just like this idea of, you you talked before about persona, right? You know, persona is like, who do you want to be to who do you want to pretend to be versus like persona versus person? Like who are you? Like who are you actually? And I think so many people, like too many people are focused on creating a persona of who they think they're supposed to be rather than identifying who is the person you already are and how can you bring more of that out in a genuine, authentic, tactically vulnerable way?

Dan Bennett (: 1:57:20

Yeah, man, dude, so much ammo like you. I am walking away with like a gun belt full like, OK, time to go take on the world. Let's let's do it.

Corey Wilks, Psy.D. (: 1:57:29

All right,

so then let's land this fucking plane. Who should reach out to you and why?

Dan Bennett (: 1:57:32

You

⁓ I generally think about this kind of like, you know, long ago in my career, I decided I was never going to try to convince anyone video was important anymore. So if you already think video is important, whether that means you are brave enough to start making it, you're adding it to your repertoire because you already create something like maybe adding a camera to your podcast or you've been doing it and you want help scaling, getting better camera confidence next level or our last product.

handing things off to us and we take care of all your post-production so you can just create and then go be the expert in your field you are outside of that instead of a media manager. ⁓ So if that resonates with anyone, those are definitely the sort of people we're looking for. And we changed our tagline to say, we help remarkable people look and sound great because we just kept getting clients that fit in, like you said, creator and then the subset of like 15 different types of folks.

We started finding that so many of these people didn't fit a standard mold, but they were remarkable. That's the one thing we could agree upon is no matter what they were doing, they were noteworthy and they were remarkable. So if you view yourself, even if it's with imposter syndrome as someone remarkable and you know your stuff and you think video could help you build that trust with your audience and you don't want to go down your route of teach myself and go through the pain and the fire, you got a pro waiting right here to, to.

grab your hand and pull you through. So hopefully that makes sense. And then we don't really do sales calls. We do free strategy calls. So if you're curious about getting unstuck or what it would look like for you or any of those sorts of things without the pressure of like a gimmick or a sales call or like, hey, buy something. That's how we run everything. So I'm always more than happy to talk to anyone for free with no agenda. Cause most of the time we help people get unstuck and then they just refer other people. It's not that they become clients. It's that they're like, Dan got me unstuck. I bet he could help you cause you're always complaining about videos hard.

over there. So yeah, hopefully that makes sense.

Corey Wilks, Psy.D. (: 1:59:34

And then where I'll put all the links in the show notes and shit, but, ⁓ just for this conversation, where should people go to learn more?

Dan Bennett (: 1:59:43

Yeah, so I tried to make it easy years ago because I had a podcast of my own. I bought a URL and it's danhaslinks.com and it was for the sake of being on podcasts and answering the question, where should people find you? So if you go to danhaslinks.com, it's just a stack of buttons that goes to every platform that I have and I'm super responsive. I'm online quite a bit and easy to find and I'm open to talk. So anywhere you find me, email to LinkedIn to wherever.

⁓ DanHasLinks.com. Because Dan does have links.

Corey Wilks, Psy.D. (: 2:00:15

Awesome. And then

parting advice you would like people to leave with from you. It can be specifically to the work you do or anything else. Open stage.

Dan Bennett (: 2:00:29

Yeah.

Give yourself grace.

People will ⁓ love you, hate you, and everything in between. You will love yourself, hate yourself, and everything in between. ⁓ We can help make videos simple, asterisk, go to the bottom of the page, cite, not easy, it's never gonna be easy, but it can be simplified. And all those things equal ⁓ pain of some sort. Not always a ton, but pain of some sort. And through all that,

If a million people heard me say what I think is most important today, it's give yourself grace.